Seeing as how the jedi vs sith guide to the force thread has gotten into this I thought to make a thread concerning how,when and why Revan fell to the darkside.
Well, if we follow the evidence from the games, it would seem Revan fell (like I said in the other thread) just prior to/near the beginning of the Mandalorian Wars. Otherwise, he would surely have been apprehended or reprimanded by the Jedi Council when searching there for the Ancient Ruins.
BTW: Feel free to elaborate on what JvS. says for those of us who don't have it....
I have a few possible scenarios that I will list as to when he and malak fell.
1.He could have fallen prior to the war as you said and upon entering the crystal cave as one of the master suggested.
2.He could have fallen prior to the war at the star forge ruins. And go to the ruins there.
3.He actually fell on Malachor but was able to keep the state of mind needed for the task at hand(so he resisted the darkside enough not to be fully corrupted and be its slave) It would make sense the he was scouting for a bases prior to officially entering the war and it was here he learned of the true sith and realize he could use the star forge after the war to take over the republic.And it was here he learned of the star maps.
4. Is the same as above but learned of the true sith and the star forge during the war and was able to avoid detection and he and malak was able to land on dantooine.
PLEASE post your theories too.
And as far the JvS goes. Bodo Bass in the Tedryn Holocron is tells of the second sith war. And in it she says the revan is revan chist and Malak's real name is alek
There is on page 131-133 a section called "The Reformation of Revan"
IA jedi historian named Deersa Luur Jada talks about what made them fell (including a Revan,Malak and a little bit of Exar Kun and Ulic Qel Droma) And how Revan regained his memories in his quest for the star forge. But did not want revenge,talks about his self awareness,if revan reedemed himself,and how the new revan even with his new and old memories is different from his former self.
Last edited by Elite Hunter on Dec 2nd, 2007 at 11:14 PM
In my opinion, Revan never fell to the Dark Side. Sure, he learned the secrets of the Ancient Sith, and gained powers forbidden by Jedi, and he murdered many in the name of power and greed, but he was far above the simple menial divisions of Light and Dark.
Revan merely became smart enough to understand that:
A) Following the Code of the Jedi and forbidding certain techniques and/or means of acquisition of power (murder, learning from the Sith) would only limit him.
B) In order to ensure tranquility and harmony, chaos would inevitably have to ensue. However, such chaos would have to be both controlled and orderly in essence.
To say he completely fell to the Dark Side obviously doesn't take into account many of his actions and objectives. He chose to strive for strength because of the threat he learned of from the True Sith. He killed many because they caused disruption within the Republic. He fought a war against the Republic because its leadership was too weak to defend it from the coming storm. He didn't kill those who stood in his way either, he always attempted to turn them to his cause first.
I think his actions and objectives differ greatly from the Sith. It's merely the means in which he accomplishes some of them in which he has any similarity.
I do agree with you to the point that Revan in the end belonged to neither side of the force as Malak says: "Savior, conqueror, hero, villain. You are all things, Revan… and yet you are nothing. In the end, you belong to neither the light nor the darkness. You will forever stand alone."
Only someone of the darkside more specifically a sith lord would say something like that.
He did fall yet he was able to have a certain degree of control of the darkside that others would not have and thus would become its slave. Revan also had a great understanding of war. But even the war he did things a jedi would never had done such as leaving worlds defenseless while making strategic worlds impenetrable. He did to stop the true sith but he still would have ruled the galaxy and tried to eliminate the jedi.And those who felt would not follow him after the mando. wars he purposely put them in a position to die at malachor.
Originally yes but he did become a sith lord creating a holocron that gave Bane the idea of the rule of two. Revan is one of the few sith who had a better understanding of things. But once he did fall. His actions of a war against the republic was the same as Kun's.His objective was to take over the galaxy and save it from an intergalactic threat.
One of the reasons why Sidious knew he needed the control of the empire was because of the Vong. One of Palpatine's most trust aids Kinman Doriana said this during the time of th eoutbopund flight project and its destruction:There's an invasion coming. A massive assault force of dark ships, shadowy figures, and weapons of great power, based on organic technology of a sort we've never seen before. Thrawn also had the belief the empire could have a better chance against the vong,sound familiar?
Last edited by Elite Hunter on Dec 3rd, 2007 at 03:11 AM
Um sorry lightsnake but that is a gross misrepresentation of Revan's goals. Yes he did turn to the darkside but because he believed a DLOTS could stand against the "True Sith", and he was getting the republic ready for it. It has absolutely nothing to do with one sith guarding his territory from another. Now THATS silly.
From your point of view maybe not, from his, he was doing it to save the galaxy. I guess you can compare his ideals to that of Jacens, sort of, except for the fact that Revan was smarter and had more control.
No, you're not understanding what Lightsnake was saying. His intentions were good at the beginning, until he truly fell and was fully immersed in the Sith Ways. It's not very hard to understand.
We know he was fully immersed in the sith ways Noobaris, yet that doesn't take away the fact that he thought he was serving a greater purpose, which is the continual existence of the republic. Even when he made his holocron, he was attacking only certain parts of the republic that needed to be brought down, while leaving others alone.
Revan, by the time he had made his Holocron, was fully immersed in the Sith Ways and very evil. His goals were no longer noble, as indicated by the fact that he left behind his Holocron for darksiders to learn from in the future.
His "for the greater good" approach was only there when he chose to use the darkside to build a fighting force capable of challenging the Ancient Sith, yet evidently at some point it was no longer his philosophy as indicated by the fact that he wanted to preserve the teachings of the Sith and wanted to ensure its success for the future.
Or Revan wanted the sith to control the republic while focusing on the outside threat of the "True Sith". We can go round and round with this Noobaris, because there are alternative theories for Revan's goals. Furthermore, the ancient sith and the true sith aren't the same groups.
I'm siding with Lightsnake and Nebaris on this one, as they're correct in principle. For whatever reason, you're making it quite clear that Darth Revan utilized dark side techniques and powers to accomplish light side goals -- it's not possible. Using the dark side and immersing yourself into it as heavily as Revan isn't possible without a great deal of corruption. Luke Skywalker -- the man who rejected Emperor Palpatine at Endor -- surrendered himself to the dark side with "good intentions" in mind: to destroy the Reborn Emperor from within. He managed some minimal success; he learned Palpatine's secrets and sabotaged many Imperial war schemes (though unaware that Palpatine was aware of it). But even he didn't come out unscathed, and admits that without Leia's loving presence, he would have never defeated Palpatine or rejected the dark side.
As brilliant as Revan is, canon shows that all who use the dark side heavily end up corrupted by it, even if they renounce it in the end. Revan didn't come close to mastering it. It mastered him.
The truth is, there are conflicting sources. The one (KotOR II) would seem to exhibit the belief that Revan NEVER "fell" to the Dark Side. The Holocron from PoD, however, clearly makes it appear as if Revan full-embraced the Dark Side to the point of being truly evil.
Personally, I've speculated whether or not Revan made his Holocron AFTER the events of KotOR, when he disappeared and was not seen again.
I completely disagree Escape. We have the knowledge of Darth Vectivus who was a sith lord and yet he was called a very fair businessman. I don't argue that Revan wasn't corrupted, but I argue the fact that he still had that same goal of defending the republic from an outside threat.
Kreia made the statement that he never fell and that is her opinion and Kreia's opinion is not canon. There is no way a jedi would make a sith holocron. He did fully embrace the darkside whether he intended to or not.And on another note I think it is possible that Revan still had the goal of defending his sith empire but he first had to worry about conquering the republic which he never accomplished thanks to Malak. Furthermore it would seem logical that he would try to defend his empire with the infinite fleet and if he was victorious he still would have run the galaxy.
Last edited by Elite Hunter on Dec 4th, 2007 at 03:17 AM
You all seem to be going on the stance (not particularly heeded with regards the EU) that an "evil" character is always "evil." Like I said, it's just speculation on my behalf, and nothing more. If you'd like to better understand my reasoning, I'll speak more of it later....
Dec 2nd, 2007 10:48 PM
