Hmmm. The ability to see objects in every direction versus the ability to alter-reality, send people to other dimensions, summon nigh-invincible shields that can also attack, summon black fire that can eat through anything, and trap enemies in horrific optical illusions that are nearly impossible to escape from.
Tough choice.
__________________
"The Daemon lied with every breath. It could not help itself but to deceive and dismay, to riddle and ruin. The more we conversed, the closer I drew to one singularly ineluctable fact: I would gain no wisdom here."
I really want to reply to this topic categorizing the abilities and bring up the comparisons, and advantages and disadvantages with each technique using the manga. But I'm just too tired and I need to get up early tomorrow. Perhaps I'll attend to it later.
Byakugan is a great counter to the sharingan as I recall. Isn't it stated that the Byakugan can see through genjutsu?
If we are talking from a clearly taijutsu stand point, then I think Byakugan is better since you have nearly 360 vision, can see chakra points, hidden weapons or enemies, etc.
However from an all purpose stand point, the sharingan is clearly better. The power of genjutsu, although over rated, is powerful nonetheless. Not too mention the offensive and defensive capabilities. With attacks and defense like Susan'o, Amaterasu, Tsukiyomi, there is no way the Byakugan can compare. The best defense I have seen from The byakugan is neji's rotation defense, and he is the only one I have seen do it. They also have the gentle fist method, but this requires you to get close. This is not true of sharingan.
The sharingan is much better in my opinion. The only drawback is the cost of vision with sharingan as opposed to none I can think of with byakugan.
__________________
Last edited by socool8520 on May 27th, 2012 at 11:49 PM
I think Byakugan is possibly better than base Sharingan (2 tomoe), but a mastered basic sharingan (3 tomoe) passes it, and a mangekyo is in an entire different league.
That's long-term useful, but it's still limited by the user's ability to use the jutsu (i.e. if you don't have that element release or skill in shaping chakra or even just enough chakra, you can't use it. If you aren't physically on a level for the taijutsu, yours'll be a shadow of it, and so on). Note how despite having it for years, Sasuke doesn't actually have a crazy number of jutsu, because everyone he fights uses different elements or kekkei genkai or non-hand seal jutsu and all that. He ends up still learning most of his stuff the old fashion way, taijutsu aside.
And that's about all basic sharingan gives you, aside from genjutsu defense (which byakugan gives too) and enhanced perception/chakra sight.
Byakuyan's perception ability allowing you to see what your opponent is doing, and hurt their organs and even chakra systems, is a very immediately-useful thing, and lets you do stuff like learn to
Now, three tomoe you get into both precog, which is awesome, and being able to do eye genjutsu of your own. That's where it surpasses byakugan.
Good point. But Sasuke was able to replicate Lee's speed for the most part (which I think is doo-doo), although it was more taxing. I think the fact that Sasuke doesn't know alot of varied jutsus is just forgetful on the writer's part (more so with Kakashi). As far as I know, Byakugan does not give you physical boosts like that in that short of time like the Sharingan could do. But again, over use of the sharingan blinds you and all that happens with over use of the Byakugan is fatique.
Sasuke was able to copy his moves and from that manage to get his speed up in intense training. He didn't copy the speed strait off, that is to say the eyes didn't up his speed directly just told him what to aim for with physical training.
Going by the databooks, even post speed training he wasn't *as* fast as Lee, just close (3.5 vs 4).
I think there's a real issue that once you're good, you don't need the weak jutsu most everyone has, and a lot of the jutsu you want require some tool, or physical modification, or seal-less trick, that can't really be copied so easily.
Part of the reason Kakashi can do so many is he has 3 elements, which almost no-one else does, and that's another thing that requires intense non-eye training as a prereq.
What was the deal with the Rinnegan...? Just watched for the first time the entire Naruto/Shippudden shows in about a month so i may have missed/forgotten/mixedup something. It was hyped to be the ultimate eye thingy, but it sort of didn't deliver IMO. Unless of course it was the sole reason responsible for Nagato being so powerful and having so much chakra?
The rinnegan allowed for Nagato to use all those paths. Force/attract power, chakra absorption, shinra tensei, shared vision between members, pretty much everything Nagato was able to accomplish with his six paths. It's the strongest of the eye powers
In addition to that, someone with Rinnegan is supposed to have access to every element, though we haven't seen that in use yet.
Mind, Sasuke was already very fast. The difference wasn't huge.
Not as useful as Byakugan's telescopic/x-ray/360 vision IMO. It lets you see long ways off, and see hiding things, and see anyone coming behind you. The last one, in a ninja world...? So very useful. At no point does it become not-useful, and it's basically better than the Rinnegan's shared vision (as long as you don't take eye damage).
I disagree. Sasuke wasn't even capable of blocking an attack from lee with his weights on during their first encounter. big speed difference. It wasn't until the training period with Kakshi that he was even comparable to Lee.
A basic gist of the common abilities of these two doujutsu.
Sharingan:
1) Gives one the ability to see chakra, but not the chakra pathways.
2) Gives one the ability to track the physical movements of any object, no matter how fast it or the user himself is moving. Once the Sharingan evolves into its 3-tomoe stage, this ability advances and the user becomes capable of predicting the future movements of said object.
3) Gives one the ability to potentially mimic any jutsu they see with their Sharingan.
4) Gives one the ability to use and counter genjutsu with their eyes.
Byakugan:
1) Gives one the ability to see chakra, as well as the chakra pathways within a person. Gifted users are also capable of seeing the Tenketsu, tiny points along the chakra pathway that are used to emit chakra.
2) Gives one X-ray vision that allows one to see through physical objects and people.
3) Gives one Telescopic vision that allows one to see distant objects.
4) Gives one a 360 degree field of vision, with a small blind spot, and a variable range.
Offensive standpoint:
The Sharingan allows one to use genjutsu with their eyes, and this allows them to trap opponents in a genjutsu just by looking them in the eye.
Sharingan users can also potentially mimic any Taijutsu, Genjutsu, or Ninjutsu that they see. Of course, this ability is limited. They cannot mimic a technique they are simply incapable of performing, such as a technique that has requirements the user does not possess. Various examples include:
a) Sasuke being incapable of mimicking Storm-Release jutsu, as he lacks the Advanced Chakra Nature necessary to use Storm-Release.
b) Sasuke being incapable of mimicking Naruto's ability to summon Toads, as he lacks the Summoning Contract with Toads.
c) Sasuke being incapable of mimicking A's Raiton Armor, as he lacks the chakra reserves necessary to use the Armor.
d) Sasuke being incapable of mimicking Earth-Release jutsu, as he hasn't trained enough to acquire Earth-Release.
In other words, the limiting factor to this ability is the user's own capabilities.
In most cases, the Byakugan's lack of an offensive edge is rendered irrelevant, as the user would have been trained in Gentle Fist. Using the first ability of the Byakugan, a GF user can attack the chakra pathway, and cause massive and potentially fatal damage to the opponent. If one can see the Tenketsu, they could also shut down their opponent's ability to use chakra. It should be noted however that Gentle Fist is only useable if one possesses the Byakugan; whereas if one possesses the Byakugan, they do not automatically possess GF.
Defensive standpoint:
The Sharingan for instance, can be used to successfully repel genjutsu, and it can even be used to turn an opponent's genjutsu against themselves.
In addition, if one can copy an opponent's jutsu successfully, the user could use the copied jutsu to cancel out the opponent's jutsu.
Though arguably it is the ability to track fast moving objects that is its best defensive aspect. Once the user gains the 3-tomoe Sharingan, they can predict the physical movements of said fast-tracking objects, giving them a significant advantage. Of course, this also possesses limitations.
The user's physical capabilities come into play here, i.e. if one's body cannot keep up with one's eyes, then it doesn't matter if you can still see the attack, as your body cannot move in time to react to the attack. In addition, certain things, like Chakra cloaks moving on their own for instance, cannot be predicted. Finally, sheer top-end speed, like that of A's max speed, can get apparently past the Sharingan's tracking & predictive ability. I believe that A was only able to get past Sasuke as he moved around him, and Sasuke's neck couldn't turn quickly enough, i.e. it wasn't the Sharingan itself that failed there. But that is a discussion for some other time.
Finally, the Sharingan can also be used to cast Izanagi, which is commonly used to negate any damage that occurs to the user. Said reality-warping comes at the price of the Sharingan going blind however.
The Byakugan on the other hand, allows one to see anything and through anything, that is within their range. This range varies, and its lowest known value is at least 50 metres. In addition, their visual range is 360 degrees, and has only a small blind-spot. The weakness of this blind-spot can be somewhat mitigated by moving it around.
As such, the user would be capable of seeing an attack coming from any direction at least 50 meters away, and they could easily avoid said attack.
Sneaking up on a Byakugan user would also be impossible.
Though the Byakugan lacks the ability to repel/counter genjutsu like the Sharingan, it can still be used to determine if one is trapped in a genjutsu. Hinata used her Byakugan to determine that Tobi was not an illusion, and actually existed at the spot where they could see him. As such, by itself, it provides a passable defence against genjutsu.
Some GF users possess an additional powerful defence. Kaiten is a spinning tech that emits chakra in every direction and thus it functions as an omni-directional shield.
Of course, once again, GF itself isn't automatically gained when one has the Byakugan. Rather, it uses the Byakugan's unique abilities. Much like Uchiha use the Sharingan's abilities in order to use their Windmill and Shuriken techs.
There are other aspects worth noting too. If either is transferred, the Sharingan stays active all the time, whereas the Byakugan can be turned on an off at will. Thus the Sharingan user will have to fight with one eye covered up or else his chakra will be drained rapidly if he is not an Uchiha, whereas the Byakugan user need not cover up his eye if he is not a Hyuuga.
Another thing to note is that the Byakugan is present in virtually every Hyuuga that is born, and can be activated instantly. Unlike the Byakugan, the Sharingan isn't always present in every Uchiha, and it needs to be awakened first before it can be used regularly. In order to awaken the Sharingan, an Uchiha needs to undergo some form of emotional pressure.
One final thing to note is that the Sharingan possesses an advanced form, namely the Mangekyou Sharingan, which itself has its own extreme advantages and disadvantages. The Sharingan is also capable of evolving into the Rinn'egan, the third and most powerful doujutsu, but the conditions to do so are unknown.
If these two are used against each other, it would ultimately depend on the combatants themselves in my opinion.
Most people agree that the order is 3 Tomoe Sharingan > Byakugan > 2 Tomoe Sharingan. However, depending on the combatant's own skills, one could easily argue that a Byakugan user would best a 3 Tomoe Sharingan user, or that 2 Tomoe Sharingan user would best a Byakugan user.
Both have their advantages and disadvantages. The Sharingan is geared more towards combat, while the Byakugan is superior when it comes to vision, though the Hyuuga are capable of using its unique abilities in conjunction with their chakra control to come up with a very powerful style of taijutsu.
Nao, this thread can die. Unless anyone wants me to include MS tl;dr as well.
__________________
"To all visitors from Transylvania looking for the head of Voivode Dracula: Yes, we have it. Yes, he's dead. No, you cannot see it. No, he will not return and invade you again. It has been over thirty years, please stop pestering us."
Last edited by Demonic Phoenix on May 28th, 2012 at 07:43 PM
"The Daemon lied with every breath. It could not help itself but to deceive and dismay, to riddle and ruin. The more we conversed, the closer I drew to one singularly ineluctable fact: I would gain no wisdom here."
KMC Community Forums
May 27th, 2012 11:28 PM
Thanks.
