Rikudo sennin
Senior Member
Gender: Male Location: Narutoverse
What mach is the raikage?
Is there any calculations on how fast the raikages are?
Guy is calc at around mach 7 or 8 and if the raikage is the fastest do you think he is double digit?
Last edited by Rikudo sennin on Sep 30th, 2012 at 12:09 AM
Sep 30th, 2012 12:06 AM
NemeBro
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Gender: Unspecified Location: Saving KMC
dadudemon apparently debunked that calc.
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Sep 30th, 2012 12:12 AM
Nephthys
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Gender: Male Location: The End
Voting for mach 8 for personal reasons.
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Sep 30th, 2012 12:13 AM
Rikudo sennin
Senior Member
Gender: Male Location: Narutoverse
quote: (post ) Originally posted by NemeBro
dadudemon apparently debunked that calc.
Do you have the link?
quote: (post ) Originally posted by Nephthys
Voting for mach 8 for personal reasons.
That's nice.
Sep 30th, 2012 12:32 AM
wakkawakkawakka
Senior Member
Gender: Unspecified Location: United States
I'm actually curious about this myself. by extention do we know exactly how fast Naruto is in KMC mode(I think he's about Mach 5/6 in Sage Mode but I'm not sure)
Mach 8 seems kind of slow for the Raikage but I can't see him any higher than Mach 14 personally: don't ask me how I got that number
Sep 30th, 2012 12:45 AM
Rikudo sennin
Senior Member
Gender: Male Location: Narutoverse
quote: (post ) Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
I'm actually curious about this myself. by extention do we know exactly how fast Naruto is in KMC mode(I think he's about Mach 5/6 in Sage Mode but I'm not sure)
Mach 8 seems kind of slow for the Raikage but I can't see him any higher than Mach 14 personally: don't ask me how I got that number
Sm mode naruto was calc at 11-14.5 as the one where he was calc at mach 5 was debunked and reevaluated. So that means a large amount of characters in naruto are apparently double digit. That and part 1 guy was calc at mach 5.8 ill try to find the links.
Sep 30th, 2012 12:49 AM
wakkawakkawakka
Senior Member
Gender: Unspecified Location: United States
quote: (post ) Originally posted by Rikudo sennin
Sm mode naruto was calc at 11-14.5 as the one where he was calc at mach 5 was debunked and reevaluated. So that means a large amount of characters in naruto are apparently double digit. That and part 1 guy was calc at mach 5.8 ill try to find the links.
I though that was for the Rasenshuriken but I'll just take your word for it since I don't feel like searching for calcs at the moment(posting with a phone is hard). Well A definitely has to be faster that that though that sounds abit weird since supposedly every Bleach character bar Dangai Ichigo is around Mach 10 IIRC: I only mention this since Bleach character were usually faster than Naruto character up until about a year or two ago.
Sep 30th, 2012 12:53 AM
Rikudo sennin
Senior Member
Gender: Male Location: Narutoverse
quote: (post ) Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
I though that was for the Rasenshuriken but I'll just take your word for it since I don't feel like searching for calcs at the moment(posting with a phone is hard). Well A definitely has to be faster that that though that sounds abit weird since supposedly every Bleach character bar Dangai Ichigo is around Mach 10 IIRC: I only mention this since Bleach character were usually faster than Naruto character up until about a year or two ago.
Wait where did you hear they were all double digit? Bleach characters are definitely not that fast and pre skip g2 luffy is considered to be so damn fast cuz he is double digit I doubt he would be considered so fast if most bleach characters were that speed.
Sep 30th, 2012 12:59 AM
wakkawakkawakka
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Gender: Unspecified Location: United States
I'd try to look for the site whee the actual numbers were from but it'll be a moment before I can post: once again typing with phone sucks. Not sure about the other Bleach characters but Dangai Ichigo should definitely be about Mach 10.
Sep 30th, 2012 01:41 AM
Astner
The Ghost Who Walks
Gender: Male Location:
What speed are you referring to? There's more on an emphasis on acceleration when you're dealing with short bursts of speed—dodging and striking—as opposed to far distance travel where the emphasis is on maintaining your velocity.
Sep 30th, 2012 01:55 AM
Rikudo sennin
Senior Member
Gender: Male Location: Narutoverse
quote: (post ) Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
I'd try to look for the site whee the actual numbers were from but it'll be a moment before I can post: once again typing with phone sucks. Not sure about the other Bleach characters but Dangai Ichigo should definitely be about Mach 10.
Ok look for it but the big shock for me is that the a good amount og naruto characters are double digit+ mach I never even knew those calcs existed I thought they did not have the level of speedsters and im a naruto fan I should be ashamed.
quote: (post ) Originally posted by Astner
What speed are you referring to? There's more on an emphasis on acceleration when you're dealing with short bursts of speed—dodging and striking—as opposed to far distance travel where the emphasis is on maintaining your velocity.
IDK now im lost...
Sep 30th, 2012 02:03 AM
wakkawakkawakka
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Gender: Unspecified Location: United States
I'm pretty sure this is combat speed for the Riakage that's being speculated unless you were still referring to the Bleach comparison I tried to make.
Sep 30th, 2012 02:07 AM
Astner
The Ghost Who Walks
Gender: Male Location:
quote: (post ) Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
I'm pretty sure this is combat speed for the Riakage that's being speculated unless you were still referring to the Bleach comparison I tried to make.
How do you define combat speed?
Sep 30th, 2012 02:09 AM
wakkawakkawakka
Senior Member
Gender: Unspecified Location: United States
quote: (post ) Originally posted by Astner
How do you define combat speed?
As in the speed used to deliver attacks or dodge attacks: I'd incorporate reaction time in it as well but not sure how that would work.
oh and the site for the revised Bleach calc for Dangai Ichigo is here:
http://www.narutoforums.com/blog.php?b=16299&page=2
Sep 30th, 2012 02:13 AM
Rikudo sennin
Senior Member
Gender: Male Location: Narutoverse
quote: (post ) Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
As in the speed used to deliver attacks or dodge attacks: I'd incorporate reaction time in it as well but not sure how that would work.
oh and the site for the revised Bleach calc for Dangai Ichigo is here:
http://www.narutoforums.com/blog.php?b=16299&page=2
What a weird calc he has to be higher than that he is the strongest character seen in his verse there is no way g2 luffy can still be faster than him. It's insane.
Sep 30th, 2012 02:17 AM
Q99
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quote: (post ) Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
As in the speed used to deliver attacks or dodge attacks:
Yea, and stuff like short-range burst speed.
A lot of characters can go fast over short distances but not travel at those rates.
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Sep 30th, 2012 02:24 AM
dadudemon
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Gender: Male Location: Bacta Tank.
quote: (post ) Originally posted by Rikudo sennin
Do you have the link?
Yes, I do:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/...91#post13311964
Don't mind the typos but it shows am much more accurate depiction of his average speed during that "feat".
quote: (post ) Originally posted by dadudemon
If anything, my calc is off by being overgenerous because Lee's clothes and the sand would provide resistance to Lee's foot falling down...so the 44 m/s or 88 m/s could be too generous.
Also, we don't know how long Lee was at a 'resting' state by the time Gai got over there so it could be much much lower than 44 m/s.
Still, my calc puts guy at 4-8 times faster than the world's fastest man: Usain Bolt. So Gai is definitely super human. Just not that stupid mach 5 shit the other dude posted.
I also destroyed the Naruto "calc" because it is absolutely worthless. You'll have to read the thread to get context: click "post" in my quoted title/header to be taken to the thread which links to the OBD crap "calcs".
quote: (post ) Originally posted by dadudemon
Which I should definitely systematically destroy. That calc has MANY more problems than the Gai calc. Seriously, I can't believe such stupidity is allowed to run rampant on OBD and those calcs left standing as "legit". It's as if no one there has a clear understanding of how real science or physics work and they just mash together concepts into freakish Frankenstein calculations.
Here are all the problems with that calculation:
1. Sasuke's arm is not swinging, it was stabbing: a stabbing motion is slower than an arm swinging motion. This is simple rotation physics: a swing has the arm almost fully extended. A stabbing motion has the arm bent at the elbow. The stab wasn't quite top down like the sword slices measured on Mythbusters so the benefit of gravity is not there to help the arm move faster. So even if the same exact forces are applied to moving that kunai as applied to a top-down swing, the arm cannot move as fast, at the very end, because it is bent (see forces applied to a lever arm, over time, in your physics 201 textbook) and semi-thrusting and semi-swinging in a rotation motion. Loss of length of lever arm? Loss of maximum speed. So an equal application of the Mythbusters swing fails here.
2. The mythbusters calculation measured 6ms to slice through 7 inches. They said on the show that they found 'the best'. I would take this to mean that they are among the best modern Samurai swordsman they could find in CA. Here's where the calculation goes horribly wrong: they measured the peak speed at which the SWORD moved through the bamboo bundles NOT their arm speed. They were measuring the blade speed. Because of how a lever arm moves in a rotation, the speed at the hands will be significantly slower than the speed at the tip of the sword. This is also a lever arm thing (like above) but it is rotational lever arms. This is known as angular velocity. The speed at their hands would be significantly lower than the speed at the tip of the sword...like...much slower. So in order to calculate the velocity at his fingers, you'd need to know the length of his lever arm and his velocity in radians. That cannot be determined from what we know. The use of this Mythbusters feat is not translatable, in a physics sense, to this speed feat from Sasuke because of points 1 and 2.
3. The speed of the sword, as mentioned in point 1, would be faster than Sasuke's stabbing motion because of the lever arm distance mentioned in point #2 and gravity assisting with the slicing speed.
4. The actual speed of the slicing motion was calculated wrong, as well.
7 inches in 6 ms.
7 inches = 2.54cm*7 inches = 17.7800 cm
17.78 cm/100 (to find meter) = 0.1778 m
0.1778 m / 0.006 s (this is 6 ms) = 29.63
29.63 m/s is the ACTUAL velocity of the swinging samurai sword.
So his math is wrong...and it is wrong against his favor. WTF?
5. Sasuke is taller than being portrayed by the measures. The blue segment being used to measure Sasuke's height is just wrong. Sasuke, in the first image, is standing with his feet apart. That can reduce his overall height. Besides the non sequitur use of his arms in the stabbing calculation, there is also the error in height that was used for the calculation. There's also the problem of him not standing straight up: his had is slightly hunkered. Then he is leaning slightly on his right leg. Using myself as a measure, I stood straight up (I'm 5'10") and then stood with my feet shoulder width apart, with a lean to the right, with my head slightly lowered like Sasuke's. There was a 4.5 inch difference in height. Since Sasuke is shorter than I am, let's use 4 inches. That's 10.16 cm.
So the arm length measure now becomes different. Also, measuring with a rule on your screen is quite dumb/lame. The best measure, because it will be the same on everyone's computer, is using pixels. Just zoom in enough and count them. I am not going through the calculation, again, but 10.16 cm needs to be removed from Sasuke's height in the calculated speed feat.
6. Naruto was coming to a stop in the very next panel but was sliding mad crazy on the water (it's like he's skiing...just look at it). That means his final resting point was farther than the one where we see Sasuke. That will significantly lower the measure. Doing a visual, I estimate Naruto's distance to be about 3 meters away from Sasuke, at the most.
So what did we learn from this? 6 major areas of flaws that show the calculation not only has bad math but atrocious concept execution. As the variables stand, the feat is incalculable. We just don't know how fast Sasuke's stabbing motion was and we have no idea how long and how far Naruto was sliding on the water before we see that panel (look at the water streams...looks like .5 meters to 1 meter).
So the feat must be thrown out, in my opinion.
The best "base" Naruto speed feat we have is an actual second count down where Naruto closes the gap with Pain (Nagato) during Naruto's 5 second, on panel, count down. Why was that not used? I'll tell you why: it would vastly reduce Naruto's base speed.
This makes me wonder how many of the calculations in the wiki are either plain wrong or significantly off. I know with Edward's profile, they have his strength horribly under estimated. Edward says they are thousands of time stronger than humans (or a thousand). The average human male (in shape, not this modern sedentary version that we are, now..I can almost get 300 lbs, myself) can clean and jerk over 150lbs. Using a low end estimate of only 1000 times stronger, that means Edward can clean and jerk 150,000 pounds. That's 75 tons.
Why was that canon statement made by Edward, who is one of the most educated people in their universe (Edward said that the only person who has read more books than him is Carlisle and twilight vampires have eidetic memory (from book 4)). So why would Edward be a biased source or an inaccurate source? Based on the strength feat I calculated for his "tree pushover" feat, his strength jumped well into the hundreds of tonnes (not tons) of force, thus proving Edward's statement about "thousands" of time stronger to be accurate. That's just an example of one of the areas that OBD is definitely wrong with their calculated measures.
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Sep 30th, 2012 02:26 AM
Rikudo sennin
Senior Member
Gender: Male Location: Narutoverse
quote: (post ) Originally posted by dadudemon
Yes, I do:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/...91#post13311964
Don't mind the typos but it shows am much more accurate depiction of his average speed during that "feat".
I also destroyed the Naruto "calc" because it is absolutely worthless. You'll have to read the thread to get context: click "post" in my quoted title/header to be taken to the thread which links to the OBD crap "calcs".
Was the first link to debunk gai's base speed?
Im not sure what the second calc is for can you like just tell me the character it pertains and the final answer?
Sep 30th, 2012 02:35 AM
Astner
The Ghost Who Walks
Gender: Male Location:
quote: (post ) Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
As in the speed used to deliver attacks or dodge attacks: I'd incorporate reaction time in it as well but not sure how that would work.
Technically I'm not even sure you could generalize attacks without losing information, but that's besides the point.
quote: (post )
The pulverization of rock isn't linear to mass. On top of that, it wasn't a shock-wave, because only the mountain was affected. Shock-waves are omnidirectional.
But let me illustrate this with a counter-example, because I'm lazy. Imagine if you collide two sword at mach 10. The swords weigh, say two kilogram each.
The maximal energy of that shock-wave—according to Newtonian physics—would be: (4/2)*(340*10)^2 ≈ 23 MJ, or 6.4 kWh.
And that's the energy at impact, it would reduce quadratically over the distance to that mountain.
Sep 30th, 2012 02:37 AM
dadudemon
Senior Member
Gender: Male Location: Bacta Tank.
quote: (post ) Originally posted by Rikudo sennin
Was the first link to debunk gai's base speed?
Yes.
Here is the thing I was debunking:
http://www.narutoforums.com/showthread.php?t=715365
quote: (post ) Originally posted by Rikudo sennin
[BIm not sure what the second calc is for can you like just tell me the character it pertains and the final answer? [/B]
Base Naruto.
And there is no final answer. I just showed why the base naruto "calc" has to be thrown out as just plain idiocy/rubbish.
Here is the link to the stuff I was destroying:
http://www.narutoforums.com/showthread.php?t=687037
quote: (post ) Originally posted by Astner
The pulverization of rock isn't linear to mass. On top of that, it wasn't a shock-wave, because only the mountain was affected. Shock-waves are omnidirectional.
But let me illustrate this with a counter-example, because I'm lazy. Imagine if you collide two sword at mach 10. The swords weigh, say two kilogram each.
The maximal energy of that shock-wave—according to Newtonian physics—would be: (4/2)*(340*10)^2 ≈ 23 MJ, or 6.4 kWh.
And that's the energy at impact, it would reduce quadratically over the distance to that mountain.
Do you see what I mean now about the OBD "calcs" being rubbish? They have no basic concepts of physics and just mash things together and hope it sticks. I get irritated reading those threads. However, some of them do readily admit that they do not know what they are doing so I can overlook their attempts.
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Last edited by dadudemon on Sep 30th, 2012 at 02:44 AM
Sep 30th, 2012 02:42 AM
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