Phoenix has infinite experience and untold knowledge allowing the entity to easily wield the power it produces. Nathan Grey wouldn't stand a chance, full potential or no, since in essence he's still virtually human and has a limited scope on his abilities. Experience and not power is the key. Phoenix has both.
Last edited by nathan summers on Aug 10th, 2005 at 05:18 AM
THAT IS THE PHEONIX "FORCE" UR TALKIN ABOUT, dark pheonix{aka. jean as the avatar of the force} does not have the same power level as the pheonix force and as such is not that powerful,
Leon, me and you have had this conversation on two prior occassions, i have corrected you on both, but being the fanboy you are you refuse to let the truth penetrate that skull of yours.
Nate Grey never in his wildest dreams has (or should i say had because your character is now defunct) the power to take on Phoenix. You know what Phoenix is, you have been around to see all of the debates i have participated in, so whats your excuse? The fact that your still saying this 4 months later just highlights this as a case of fanboyism to the extremes.
As for Nate rivalling Dark Phoenix in terms of telekinesis that quote came from Moira around 98 i believe during the phoenix retcon period which started off in 1986 and ended in 2002.
Before 86 and as per current continuity Phoenix is the union between Jean and the primal force of creation. It is referred to as the ultimate mutation because it is the final stage of evolution a species can attain. At this point they become one with creation (the multiverse,all life) and surpass the abstracts and LT bringing about the end of all that is.
That is current continuity.
In 86 the phoenix got retconned in 86 into just another cosmic entity that posessed people. During the retcon Dark Phoenix was this powered down Phoenix in human form. Exhausted after the M'kraan crystal incident and with its power cut off by psychic circuit breakers this dark phoenix being an energy being trapped within the limits of a human body was a leech on life. The retcon made it out to be a weaker corrupted incarnation of "the phoenix force".
With that retcon abolished dark phoenix, phoenix and jean are one in the same. As i have previously mentioned, they are all just different facets of Jean, not a seperate cosmic entity, but an evolved state of Jean. There is no power beyond Phoenix hence it being referred to as the ultimate mutation and the ultimate potential ( Uncanny Xmen 135, Xmen Forever 1 - 6 , New Xmen 128, 150, 151 -154)
There is no potential beyond Phoenix im afraid. It is the force that makes, maintains and ends creation. Nate Grey is a powerful earthbound mutant. He more or less reached his full potential as Shaman Nate. God like Cable whose power levels were on par with Nates and he got messed up Silver Surfer with ease. Phoenix has humbled a variety of heralds with a gesture, had Galactus on his knees trying to bargain his way out of a fight, contained the multiversal destroying power of the M'kraan crystal, held the 616 universe/reality in her hand and telekinetically restructured it on a whim. That is power far beyond the scope of Nate Grey. Dont be silly son.
I doubt Nate could go against whole universe. I get sick of even giving in the sentence Nate against whole universe.
Dark Phoenix wins with extreme ease.
I think that about ultimate mutation is one of the most disgusting story, idea ever written in any comic. It was 1000000000 times better about PF just possesing bodies. I really hope they give something else again and get rid of this ultimate mutation.
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Last edited by Xplosive on Aug 10th, 2005 at 11:57 AM
Youre saying its disgusting because you have no knowledge whatsoever about the principles behind it XP. You're showing your age and ignorance, google the subject and keep well informed prior to firing your mouth off on subjects you are ignorant on.
I think phoenix was a stupid character to begin with. shes just one of those 'female reader number' booster strategies of marvel. i say this not only cuz of annoying phoenix fangirls but cuz i really feel so.
so an entity that represents all life not born yet? thats about as desperate as it gets. easy to imagine too...couple of marvel guys sitting at a starbucks "hmm so we have the eternals, a mysterious guy above "all"?, a badass obsessed with chick, a guy with a giant head thats been to the "previous universe"...all we need is a being that is all beings but not born..yet". i mean cmon shes given wayy too much credit [check out anything x-men related from the upcoming movie to the fox kids show to all the comics]. shes over-rated like crazy prolly based solely on the power+chick principle.
But enough about what i think about phoenix. I think Nate Grey is obviously under-rated, but more importantly i believe that taking the same steps forward in the original idea of the guys that created X-Man in the beginning - would nate have not have died - resulted in a totally different character than what is known today.
for example - while phoenix was being written she could have been killed off...but writers are always advancing characters who have an original purpose [e.g. magneto who is known incredibly powerful]. If nate grey was to accumulate time, his story would have greatly been changed.
Potentially Nate is Marvels most full frontal attempt to create the most powerful mutant.
Look at the things he did in his short life and tell me what character does so much with so LITTLE control over his potential power.
Given that phoenix is written as usually a stupid bird that can throw everyone around, but nate greys potential is hidden as if a magneto killed off in the 1960's, where would discussions be if that happened?
This is the most appalling piece of fanboy waffle ive ever read. Let it go mate, Nates dead, Cable the original and best is back in the spotlight. Everything is as it should be. You'll get over it.
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Aug 8th, 2005 07:06 AM
Uh, but still MORE than enough power to fry Nate, with ease.
