After all this time Leon do you still not realise that theyre virtually the same thing? Dark Phoenix is the Phoenix Force who instinctively had self imposed limits (the oft mentioned psychic circuit breakers) placed on its power after the M'kraan crystal incident in an effort to rein its power as a precaution for day to day living as a human on earth. Those limits could be stripped away at anytime.
sigh n thas due to the CURRENT, rather unstable continuity, reguardless, u are right at the very basics, but AS was shown those limits never WERE broken, and thas why she WAS DARK pheonix n not pheonix force{what i call cosmic pheonix} when shes cosmin pheonix her will is never her own, its of the PHEONIX FORCE. n she most definately WAS dark pheonix. its just like sayin. oh gee, gambit always has the POTENTIAL of red sun, n at any time, sever mental trauma can cause him to reach that planet destroying omega level limit, but fact is it NEVER happened, n we either talk about gambit OR red sun, not two n the same. {oh btw, pheonix still isnt multiversal, its a universal abstract slightly stronger than eternity}
n ive given the result of BOTH versions, dark pheonix{with JEAN incharge} loses, cosmic pheonix with PHOENIX FORCE incharge wins without even fightin.
Well actually Leo the barriers were breaking down throughout the Dark Phoenix Saga thanks to Masterminds machinations and as stated her powers were on a geometric curve with no end in sight. She was slowly returning to her true power levels however as stated on panel the Jean persona was fighting the corrupted Dark Phoenix all the way hence why it took so long. The limits were self imposed. Phoenix could remove them at anytime if she chose. Mastermind made part of Jean want to remove them while the other side held on to them for fear of what the power could do.
As for the spiteful abstract comment its actually stated that Phoenix is the creation force and Death tells Jean that it is different to the abstracts, beyond them (Classic X-men 42 whose scans you'll find in Whirlys Hierarchy thread ). So that matters not debatable. Your opinion means nothing in light of that. As stated by the bios the Phoenixes are the life forces of a universe. They are the Big Bangs from which all life and energy in a universe derives from. All the many Phoenixes of the multiverse are fragments, they all stem from one single source...the white hot room where you have the Phoenix Consciousness as detailed both in the Handbooks of alternate universes and X-men 2005.
that IS quite a big change on ur part, sayin that pheonix has doplegangers in multiple universes and isnt a single almighty multiversal power{sumthin which u argued to death} as i said before, pheonix is SLIGHTLY above abstracts like ETERNITY, NOT equal to them, but the story is QUITE unstable with pheonix not being present at times where she obviously shud be. and yes in light of the CURRENT UNSTABLE continuity, pheonix had self imposed mental blocks, which she cud remove at any time, n become the cosmic pheonix, but as ive SAID, before, cosmic pheonix is the entire power and WILL of the pheonix force, n jean is not free to do as she pleases, the only where she WAS capable of doin what she wanted was as dark pheonix {n ur gettin personal again by sayin that what im sayin doesnt matter, either debate nicely or dont debate at all} and i have given SEPERATE outcomes of BOTH. ur argument has been proven wrong time n time again, pheonix ws never a single multiversal entity, she was never shown to have the power of god, she was only CREATION, n an abstract who was SLIGHTLY more powerful than other abstracts, she had counterparts in alternate universes just like other abstracts{sumthin u admitted just now} n she WAS in shards, sumthin u almost moved mountains to deny. her multiversal feats were repeated by people like cyclops, which made them void n the only argument u have left is that all pheonixes stem from a single basic, pheonix from the main 616 universe, in a desperate bid to give her multiversal power again, this MIGHT be true to an extent, n unlike u ill accept what is plausible, but then again, all other abstracts of alternate universes are connected to the 616 reality, just like the pheonix shards. it doesnt give the pheonix any more multiversal statues than eternity or death, only LT had multiversal status. THOTU, is thus beyond ur pheonix n u shudnt be continuin this debate anymore, u already have accepted to many things u never did, n the opposition has accepted to pheonix beeing promoted from minor abstract to chief abstract, but nonetheless an abstract. stop this debatin now, as u only bore people to death with it with no viable outcome, only to urself, does it seem that u have made an infauliable argument.
no wat im sayin is, KNOWIN the gl fanboys, sum1 is gonna say, hey a gl contained a universe destroyin explosion easily{PIS} n since a SINGLE gl cud do that, parallex is thousands of times more powerful than every gl in the universe combined withh fulkl potential, and he stopped the spectar{PIS} n since the spectar is the wraith of god n CUDNT, do anythin to parallex, therefore, parallex is on with the likes of lucifer, n pretty soon ud have any ordinary gl beein compared to abstracts n well have the gs superlogic syndrome all over again. no gl will EVER win against pheonix force, not even parallex.
First off please learn to seperate your points into paragraphs. It makes your argument alot more coherent and easier to read.
There is no change to my argument at all. As per usual you have just misinterpreted my comments. There is one Phoenix Consciousness which manifests into the void as the Big Bangs which start off universes. Its still one being my friend which resides in the White Hot room which surveys all of Marvel. As stated in the bio and as shown in the canon comic Phoenix resurrection, the Phoenix is a mutable energy source it can split off into many seperate independent forms however they are still at the core one being, they stem from one source....the Phoenix consciousness of the white hot room. In that respect its similar to Madrox.
As revealed in New X-men as supported in Endsong and as conclusively verified in the latest X-men Handbook, Jean and the Phoenix Force are the same being. As stated in Classic X-men Jean was carved from the Phoenix as a means of it acting upon the physical plane. With that in mind all of this talk of Jean not being able to do this while Phoenix can do that is irrelevant and doesnt make sense in light of what is now firmly continuity. Jean is just a personality of Phoenix.
If creating and sustaining the abstracts of Marvel creation makes you just slightly above them then you're right. Youre too proud to say anymore than that, but you've come a long way Leo so i'll accept that for now.
Im not getting personal at all. Im just stating that conclusive on panel evidence renders opinion on the same thing irrelevant. Thats a fact. Dont be so sensitive.
The Cyclops incident was retconned after AOA came out later and said that only a Phoenix has the power to work the M'kraan crystal. Therefore my argument is still very much in place.
Despite my last post you still seem to be confused so to sum this up i will say again that the Phoenix Consciousness of the White Hot Room manifests into the pre creation void as the Big Bangs which are the Phoenixes. They are all just part of the one force and they draw their power from it. The Phoenix is a mutable energy source as they made sure to state in the bio and as such can seperate into many independent seperate forms which are all just aspects of the one Phoenix Consciousness of the white hot room.
LT has multiversal duties, thats what he was created for. You must be careful not to confuse role with power because as you've probably read from the various LT arguments going on right now, he isnt even conclusively beyond the IG which itself just gives mastery over one reality. LT has been defeated by the gathered power of 6 cosmic beings (none of them abstracts). Dont confuse role with power.
Also HOTU wasnt stated to be the supreme beings power that was just speculation from Thanos who also speculated the same thing about the IG back in the day which we all know now to be untrue. HOTU hasnt matched Phoenixes top feats so how it stands up to Phoenix is debatable.
With all that in mind most of your post is irrelevant as its based on the assumption that there are many seperate unconnected Phoenix beings which just isnt true.
so i was wrong about u, u havent changed, n even though u say ur not taking things pesonally, any neutral member wud tell u that u most certainly are, ur habit of twisting the tale hasnt gone away n i have better things to do than debate aimlessluy with u on a fallacious argument that u put up which u back with even more fallacious logic/riduculing/n psuedo intellect. im tellin u once n ill tell u again, keep ur oppinions to urself n dont get personal again, next to no1 believes u n with good reason, u just like startin arguments n ridiculin cause u have all the time in the world to sit on kmc, n only think up of twistin the argument untill the opposition gives up, its not very different from the kind of flawed logic n stubbornness/forgetfullness n repetetion relgious people use in trying to validate their faith. but sum1 of us actually DO have lives outside kmc, sumthin which YOU probably r not familiar with.
Must you always throw a tantrum everytime someone disagrees with your posts?
I havent got personal here at all. Thats all you Leo. I was quite happy to continue this debate but as per usual the moment it gets too much for you start booing and throwing insults. If you dont have the patience to have a full debate then dont contribute.
You dont debate. You just present your opinion and tell other people theres is wrong without ever backing up your claims. Despite that you have the audacity to criticise me?
Since when do you speak for the people of KMC? Who are you to say noone believes me? Know your place.
Write some thesis on the Pheonix that includes all the knowledge you regularly spat off in these fights. Then enter it as a thread in the comic section. I'll pin it for a week or something just for the hell of it so people can read up on the pheonix if they like.
...or not...since I know laziness can be a strong force in life as well ( ) ....just a thought.