Post #1 - Bigfoot = Sasquatch, Hank Pym & Moonstone
Some of you seem to be mistaking the Bridge of the station for an actual bridge (probably the one from the Luke/Vader fight in "The Empire Strikes Back")
The Bridge of the DS is a huge room where the Emporer sits and watches the space battle outside his window, then Vader fights Luke, then the Emperor fries Luke, then Vader kils the Emperor.
I was going to wait for Joey to post first as he needs to address how he can survive the DS exploding before he can continue in this match ... but it seems that he hasn't had the time to do so thus far so I'll point out a couple of areas he's mistaken about.
1. Bigfoot does not need to have his feet tangible when he walks/fights mainly because he can fly/hover whenever he wants to ... plus every intangible character has showings where they clearly walk through solid objects without amputating their feet.
2. BF does not have to risk destroying the station when he grows as he can do so while intangible and just pass through the various decks and walls ... not that this matters as I blew the whole thing to hell in the first few seconds of the match.
3. "Battle savvy mind reading" is going to be effectively useless to you. partly because we're not actually engaged in a physical fight, but mainly because, if we were, then you wouldn't be able to avoid my attacks due to the sheer area they would cover.
4. Invincible's physical movement speed (which would, in no way, be increased by a Legion flight ring) is nothing special ... he routinely takes a lot of hits from guys with no super-speed at all ... in fact the Scans you showed of Omni-Man just prove that his reactions aren't that great
5. "8,000,000+ tons of striking force" ... sorry, but that's total bull, you showed one scan of KK striking some ice in a place that caused it to break and allow gravity to pull it apart ... the weight of the ice had no relation to the power exerted on it.
Also, KK has to focus for at least a second or so to exert that level of control/focus, not exactly useful in a constantly moving battle ... or when he's being vaporised by an exploding super battle-station.
6. Psylocke's powers, you have the knowledge to use the basics ... but causing immense pain to someone who is hundreds/thousands of miles away from her? ... I doubt she's capable of that, and Karate Kid certainly wouldn't be capable of it.
Also, Psylocke does not have active pre-cog the way characters like Spider-Man do, if she did she would virtually never get hit. She occasionally gets psychic flashes but they are far from useful in over 95% of battle situations.
7. comparing our match to Apollo taking out Skyscraper (the guy he killed in your scan) ... there are too many things wrong with that comparison for it to have any meaning here.
a) SS is merely a grower, he does not start out at class 100+ as BF does
b) he never showed the level of strength/durability that BF has
c) Apollo is way stronger/faster than Invincible
As for your list at the end of your post
I’m stronger - you're really not, Sasquatch + the moonstone is stronger than Invincible to begin with, I grow to twenty feet and BF is 10 times stronger than Meemoo ... at 500 feet he's over 1,000 times stronger .... Meemoo is a gnat to Bigfoot.
Faster - again, no. Sasquatch has superhuman reaction speeds that are comparable to Invincibles, as does Moonstone, meshing one over the other (as that's what the moonstone does) just makes him even faster.
More Mobile (I can imagine Big Foot being really really big is going to hurt in this somewhat tight-space) - BF can move through the station as if it was air, you are still hindered by the physical structure.
Better suited for the battlefield - I don't see how.
Far more battle savvy and tactionally sound then Karla, kill first, get these questions out my face, Softon. - Sure, KK is a better fighter, can't argue that, however he can't parry an explosion that size of a small moon ... or even energy blasts that are a hundred times taller/wider than he is.
Untouchable - funny ... BF is literally untouchable, you can still be struck by many things.
Have an effective counter for any of his attacks and fighting methods. - no, you really don't.
But the main point is that MM cannot survive the detonation of the Death Star and is not fast enough to escape the blast wave should he realise what's going on (mach 10 simply wouldn't cut it)
__________________
Do you even KMC???
Last edited by Scoobless on Jul 11th, 2007 at 02:44 PM
Wait a minute, Vader and Luke didn't fight on the bridge, it was a spire that the Emperor resided in while he was on the space station (like an observation deck), and there was a shaft within the spire that led directly to the reactor core (that Vader threw the Emperor down to kill him). I'm assuming that's the battle field that was intended for this battle, right?
Also, if it's the Reeturn of the Jedi Death Star it's incomplete and about 40% of the structure is exposed to space and sealed by forcefields to maintain life support.
All correct (especially the nerd part ), but that doesn't really change anything...the rest of the DS is attached to the spire/bridge/whatever, so Scoob's tactic is interesting but very legal.
Defense, defense and more defense. Exactly what you would expect for someone who cannot possibly win.
Anyway to answer your question, I’m a teleporting telepath with lightning quick reaction. The match starts, Meemoo scans your location, plucks the info of what the hell you are doing in the reactor/uses common sense, dives into a shadow, is a continent away from the ship. This leads to why your plan sucks, your character may be able to survive the explosion but I don’t recall any feats involving how long Sasquatch can hold his breath. Invincible can hold his for around 4 hours, I’d imagine Invincible with Karate Kid’s training uploaded into his head could last for 4 days. Therefore I can just outlast your character in the depths of space for the easy win or mind rape. Whichever one is more fun for the judges. Now to the actual fight.
1.) Bigfoot’s going to HAVE to go tangible to mount offense (unless he wants to get mind raped) Meemoo can easily pluck what body part is going tangible from his head and blitz said part with psi knife then proceed to rip him to shreds when he’s shaken up. 1/10 losses for Bigfoot.
2. BF does not have to risk destroying the station when he grows as he can do so while intangible and just pass through the various decks and walls ... not that this matters as I blew the whole thing to hell in the first few seconds of the match.
Which was a stupid idea on your part, outlasting/mindraping from an unseen distance for the win. And even then growing is STILL useless because you’re still going to HAVE to become tangible to mount offense and therefore WILL be slowed down by the ship. 2/10 losses for Bigfoot
3. "Battle savvy mind reading" is going to be effectively useless to you. partly because we're not actually engaged in a physical fight, but mainly because, if we were, then you wouldn't be able to avoid my attacks due to the sheer area they would cover.
Only if you believe Val Armorr to be as braindead as Karla Soften, I could easily just jump into a shadow, moving out of your distance, fooling Soften into thinking she destroyed Meemoo (hell I could use TELEPATHY to make the feint into a illusion that she has no reason to believe is false thanks to her arrogance problems) and then brain blast her for an easy win (remember my telepathy gets a power up thanks to their being no Magneto interference 3/10 losses for Bigfoot
in fact the Scans you showed of Omni-Man just prove that his reactions aren't that great
Oh and you got a LEGIT laugh when you tried to pass off him getting hit by non speedsters as an example of slower movement, I guess Flash is a pretty slow guy too with his getting beat down by Grodd and such.
4/10 losses for Bigfoot
5. "8,000,000+ tons of striking force" ... sorry, but that's total bull, you showed one scan of KK striking some ice in a place that caused it to break and allow gravity to pull it apart ... the weight of the ice had no relation to the power exerted on it.
What’s unbelievable about a guy who’s able to do noticeable damage to people like Mon-El hitting precise enough to replicate 80,000 tons? Anyway it was a precise power strike because the building that was incrusted in the ice was not even scratched (which is why she said control and Ultraboy’s jaw dropped) if the gravity is what caused it to collapse the building would have been ruined. So Karate Kid gives you one Karate Punch in the face you die for 5/10 losses.
Also, KK has to focus for at least a second or so to exert that level of control/focus
Val Armorr doesn’t normally have the perks that come with a Viltrumite physiology (namely heightened reaction and quicker speed out put)
6. Psylocke's powers, you have the knowledge to use the basics ...
*Complete knowledge
I doubt she's capable of that,
Why? Xavier’s unchecked ranged is what a solar system over? If you give Psylocke even1/1000th of that........
let’s just say it’s not a problem. 6/10 losses for Bigfoot
and Karate Kid certainly wouldn't be capable of it.
Yeah he would. 7/10 losses for Bigfoot. Also, Psylocke does not have active pre-cog the way characters like Spider-Man do, if she did she would virtually never get hit
Bzzt wrong, Psylocke gets pre-cog when something extraordinary happens (Bigfoot actually going tangible) and Psylocke’s battle pre-cog is offset by the fact that she’s able to, um, I don’t know, READ THOUGHTS (which without superspeed doesn’t even come close to making you “virtually” unhittable, that’s just stupid.). 8/10 losses for Bigfoot.
a) SS is merely a grower, he does not start out at class 100+ as BF does
And Apollo is not even 1/1000000000th as precise with his blows as Armorr.
c) Apollo is way stronger/faster than Invincible
Maybe after sitting in the sun for a day or two, besides that, strength wise they’re about equal, slight nudge to Apollo, speedwise Invincible’s got him beat in SPADES. What comics are you reading? Hell I might even give Grayson the strength edge. I’m stronger - you're really not, Sasquatch + the moonstone is stronger than Invincible to begin with, I grow to twenty feet and BF is 10 times stronger than Meemoo ... at 500 feet he's over 1,000 times stronger .... Meemoo is a gnat to Bigfoot.
You’re right, you are stronger, but I hit MUCH harder (which is the only thing that matters).
Sasquatch has superhuman reaction speeds that are comparable to Invincibles
Even then this isn’t just Invincible, this is Invincible with Val’s training (guy taught his normal human self to react to Mon-El).
as does Moonstone,
just makes him even faster.
What speed displays does the Moonstone have that make you say this? Hell since when does Sasquatch even have super speed to mesh with? Invincible can EASILY cover the distance between Mars and the Earth in a few days. If Meshing lets you go over the cap then the Karate Kid + Invincible combo that I’m using to get this speed means that I can exceed the cap. 9/10 losses for Bigfoot.
BF can move through the station as if it was air, you are still hindered by the physical structure.
Yup BF can move through the station as if it was air, but to win the fight he’s going to be hindered. Me? Not at all I can easily shatter any barrier I come across like toilet paper. Bigfoot on the other hand will have leverage problems out the ass.
MEEMOO WINS
FLAWLESS VICTORY
Sure, KK is a better fighter, can't argue that, however he can't parry an explosion that size of a small moon
Why do you keep ignoring my teleporting and ability to read your thoughts on the fly with ease? Is it that broken an ability?
But the main point is that MM cannot survive the detonation of the Death Star and is not fast enough to escape the blast wave should he realise what's going on (mach 10 simply wouldn't cut it)
FINISH HIM!
Well then, let’s call this debate a wrap because my TELEPORTATION has just killed the only possible way you can win. Cheers.
FATALITY!
to end this segment
Joey Stacks Presents: Cliffnotes, for the lesser poster
Scoobless’s ENTIRE OFFENSIVE ARGUMENT is that he can blow up the ship and it MIGHT take out Meemoo (there’s no proof of the power of the explosion and Invincible has taken nukes with ease), this is countered by the FACT that Meemoo, like Psylocke, will be reading his thoughts from the onset of the match and can just judo flip into a shadow and teleport. From this point on there is NOTHING Scoobless can do to win this match. Literally, he’s helpless and is 100% sure that this half baked plan has won him the day, if Scoobless himself is so sure that Val is dead (and I’m certain he’s far more knowledge on these characters then Karla) and I cannot counter his plan (I know I can but such a last resort tactic that leaves you helpless has to imply 100% certainty) I see no reason to believe why someone like Karla Softon wouldn't think the same. From that point on I can easily mask my presence destroying any and all traces and telepathically DESTROY him. While he cannot even locate my character.
In effect his plan at winning the match is better then mine, for me at least. Karla hides in the reactor room, Val tries to locate her, Karla empties her attack, Val reads her thoughts and hops into a shadow, Karla gets brainfried. Stacks wins again.
Fun for all.
PS: My having never seen the OG Star Wars sucks :-(
Last edited by Papa Smurph on Jul 13th, 2007 at 12:09 AM
Post #2: Bigfoot = Moonstone, Sasquatch & Hank Pym
Doesn't matter, Moonstone can survive in space (as could the previous owners of the moonstone in the ancient Guardians of the Galaxy) She left the T-Bolts for a brief while (during the Count Nefaria thing with the Avengers) and flew to the moon by herself, took out the SHIELD guards and talked to the Kree Supreme Intelligence who explained her history to her.
Not necessarily, Moonstone can fire energy blasts while phased
What's the farthest Psylocke has been from anyone that she's managed to take down with a mental attack? .... has she ever even done it from 1 mile away? I doubt it.
No, but I was referring to the other scans you used, the ones showing Omni-Man detecting problems, dealing with them then returning before Invincible even knows what's going on.
80,000 maybe, but 8,000,000? ... no chance.
BF being solid is "extraordinary"? .... really? ..... seems doubtful.
You're actually comparing Invincible to a Superman level character after you struggled to get him accepted into an IRON MAN LEVEL tournament? .... fine, keep it up, I'm happy enough with the guy getting banned if you are.
No, you're wrong there again. BF is close to 130,000 tons in weight when at 500 ft tall, putting that behind his multi-million ton strength level and the force applied is staggering, even compared to someone like Invincible.
Except that Invincible doesn't get any flight power in this tourney whatsoever because you drafted him as a "body" character. You're stuck at single character cap speeds.
First off, Psylocke's accuracy with teleporting was abysmal to begin with ... as that's a skill part of that power there's no way Karate Kid is going to end up where he wants to go .... and a continent away is not going to be far enough to escape a blast wave that's around the size of a planet.
Actually that's only my opening attack (and it's not a ship, it's a space station) ... I was waiting to see if you could survive that before going any further ... even now it's extremely doubtful that you'll survive but I'll cover my bases anyway in case any judges disagree.
Yet another reason why he shouldn't have been allowed in to the tourney to begin with .... if that's true I mean.
*raises the banhammer*
Maybe ... I have a few theories about that.
1) Intangible characters have always been harder to detect/read/attack for telepaths (Emma Frost couldn't tell Kitty Pryde was about to attack her recently in AXM)
2) Characters with heightened electrical activity within their brains also possess enhanced mental defences due to the interference (such as Storm), with BF's massive size increase his body/brain will be producing/using electrical fields thousands of times more powerful than a normal brain and therefore will have a much better defence against telepathy.
3) the sheer size of the brain/mind being attacked will cause huge difficulties as it would be extremely different from the norm for Psylocke (and Karate Kid doesn't get her experience/skill with those powers)
4) the energy fields being produced by the Death Star will cause some interference with long range TP.
any one of those would be helpful, all 4 together would make it immensely difficult, if not impossible, for a TP attack (or even mind reading) to work here.
Um ... I disagree.
More like 50% sure ... but I'm being cautious and staying large & phased once I reach Endor just in case.
.... you've never seen Star Wars? or do you just mean KK hasn't?
________________
Summary:
He can't escape the DS blast wave
His telepathy is not going to affect this match
His physical strength is insufficient to harm BF
He is arguing that one of his individual draft characters is Superman level
HE HAS NEVER SEEN STAR WARS!!!!!!!!!!!!
__________________
Do you even KMC???
Last edited by Scoobless on Jul 13th, 2007 at 02:18 AM
All your scan shows is that she unphased her hand to blast her which is easily shattered by a well placed super speed punch from the Invincible Kid.
What's the farthest Psylocke has been from anyone that she's managed to take down with a mental attack? .... has she ever even done it from 1 mile away? I doubt it.
In the first issue of the Onslaught saga Psylocke was able to detect the Juggernaut attacking the X-mansion, from Europe, with the Magneto blocks in place.
No, but I was referring to the other scans you used, the ones showing Omni-Man detecting problems, dealing with them then returning before Invincible even knows what's going on.
You're talking about when Invincible watched his dad repair the dam with no noticable problems and then called him a showoff.
"Meemoo = Karate Kid, Psylocke AND Invincible." - Joey Stacks
If Karate Kid were using his normal human body you'd have a point, but he isn't. In fact, I'd say 8,000,000 is a reasonable number considering people were saying that Invincible is stronger then Wonder Man (who's max is like 50,000) in all actuality (given that you were one of the main people who said Wonder Man and Invincible are around the same strength level) the striking force number should be around 4,000,000,000 (50,000x80,000) tons. Yeah, you let Meemoo hit you, you're screwed buddy.
BF being solid is "extraordinary"? .... really? ..... seems doubtful.
Considering in all your matches you're keeping him phased, not doubtful at all.
You're actually comparing Invincible to a Superman level character after you
Apollo? Superman level?
Hell I've gone on record SAYING that Apollo is barely stronger then a fresh Namor (I could link you to the topic matter of fact).
No, you're wrong there again. BF is close to 130,000 tons in weight when at 500 ft tall, putting that behind his multi-million ton strength level and the force applied is staggering, even compared to someone like Invincible.
What force? You're mostly intangible brother and can't even move unphased without destroying something. And then again there's that whole 50,000 ton thing that puts my hitting force up there with Superman and such.
Except that Invincible doesn't get any flight power in this tourney whatsoever
No, but he does give Karate Kid (who's single character cap is at 200 mph) the DURABILITY to reach max speeds and we all know he does have it in him to reach speeds of MUCH greater then Mach 10.
First off, Psylocke's accuracy with teleporting was abysmal to begin with
Were you in the topic where I showed her teleporting from across a city to right behind Storm? Were you in the topic where I showed her teleporting a group of X-Men from New York into a Kenyan village where Shadow King was waiting to ambush her while simultaneously dropping herself and Wolverine into a jungle to flank the rear? Yeah you were and for the judges here's a link http://www.killermovies.com/forums/...threadid=454339 .
... as that's a skill part of that power there's no way Karate Kid is going
to end up where he wants to go
See this is the beautiful part, Karate Kid doesn't have to think of a specific location all he has to think is get me as far away as possible.
.... and a continent away is not going to be far enough to escape a blast wave that's around the size of a planet.
I've seen bits and pieces of the first Star Wars and the Deathstar was NOWHERE NEAR a planet (well at least Earth sized planet) sized object even then Karate Kid won't have to completely escape the blast as Invincible is more then durable enough to survive the outer edges of it.
Actually that's only my opening attack (and it's not a ship, it's a space station) ... I was waiting to see if you could survive that before going any further ... even now it's extremely doubtful that you'll survive but I'll cover my bases anyway in case any judges disagree.
Looks like your opening attack backfired and you've lost sight of a potent telepath who's unchecked by normal psi dampeners and has the lethal skills of Karate Kid in Invincible's body.
Yet another reason why he shouldn't have been allowed in to the tourney to begin with .... if that's true I mean.
Abomination could survive nukes too.
1) Intangible characters have always been harder to detect/read/attack for telepaths (Emma Frost couldn't tell Kitty Pryde was about to attack her recently in AXM)
Kitty Pride is the ONLY example you have and Kitty Pride=/=Moonstone.
2) Characters with heightened electrical activity within their brains also possess enhanced mental defences due to the interference (such as
Storm),
Storm's mental defenses have NEVER been stated as heightened because of her electrical activity (in fact, in the ONE instance that is being referenced, the Jean Grey instance with the ice cream, it was merely hinted at) she's just always had a assload of willpower.
3) the sheer size of the brain/mind being attacked will cause huge difficulties as it would be extremely different from the norm for Psylocke (and Karate Kid doesn't get her experience/skill with those powers)
When has size mattered to a telepath?
4) the energy fields being produced by the Death Star will cause some interference with long range TP.
And your proof is?
any one of those would be helpful, all 4 together would make it immensely difficult, if not impossible, for a TP attack (or even mind reading) to work here.
Not even close
Um ... I disagree.
And I disagree that 2+2=4, still doesn't make it right.
More like 50% sure ... but I'm being cautious and staying large & phased once I reach Endor just in case.
Yeah and you have WAYYYYY more knowledge on the characters durability then Karla Softon, who's a natural pompous ass that wouldn't think of double checking. .... you've never seen Star Wars?
I've seen bits and pieces of the first one with the deserts and stuff and thought it was boring. That also brings up another interesting point, how do you know Softon has seen Star Wars?
Summary:
He can't escape the DS blast wave
His telepathy is not going to affect this match
His physical strength is insufficient to harm BF
He is arguing that one of his individual draft characters is Superman level
HE HAS NEVER SEEN STAR WARS!!!!!!!!!!!!
Summary:
I still have my teleportation.
My telepathy still will own him.
Thanks to Scoobless's belief of Invincible's strength being at Wonder Man level (I agree actually) I now hit with 4,000,000,000 tons of force (instead of the moddest 8,000,000 I put out earlier) thanks to Karate Kid being able to optimize damage potential with his learned Karate skills.
Bigfoot growing actually helps me because he increases pain receptors allowing for nerve strikes to do more damage then they naturally cause (worst come to worse I could just use telepathy to increase the sense of pain in fact that's not a bad tactic if by some miracle, which won't happen, Bigfoot is unscathed by his attacks hell that's a powerful tactic period).
Apollo is Superman level, might as well argue that Captain America is Spiderman level.
Thanks to the merger of Karate Kid and Invincible I'm allowed to reach speeds over the caps (hell Karate Kid by himself, who's the single character speed called into question, has a max of only 200 mph)
KARLA SOFTON HASN'T SEEN STAR WARS EITHER.
Joey Stacks for president ladies and gents. Joey Stacks for president.
Last edited by Papa Smurph on Jul 13th, 2007 at 06:02 PM
in my haste I noticed a scan of Invinicible's reaction and speed being messed up.
So anyway here he's just randomly walking and sees a normal line and finds out a famous comic writer is signing comics. So he MAINTAINS A CONVERSATION WITH SOME RANDOM GUY IN THE LINE WHILE RUNNING TO HIS HOUSE AND GETTING HIS BOOKS (I know it says car but that's what he said to cover it up, Invincible doesn't even have a car)
Which is utter crap. Kid has thrown down with Cpt. Atom and done well, not to mention half a dozen other feats Namor couldn't come close to matching.
...anyway, good match. I like what Stacks has been doing, but I felt the need to debunk this particular comment since it doesn't have a direct bearing on the match.
Wait wait, I must defend my favorite character's honor.
Namor has thrown down with the likes of Hulk, Hercules and Thor. The battles they have had, even on land, have lasted for pages. That ranks up there with going toe to toe with Captain Atom.
That's...
I...I wasn't aware that there still are people that haven't seen the Classic Star Wars. Even once.
I must go and deal with this crushing information for a second.
KMC Community Forums
Jul 10th, 2007 06:04 AM
... BF is literally untouchable, you can still be struck by many things.
), but that doesn't really change anything...the rest of the DS is attached to the spire/bridge/whatever, so Scoob's tactic is interesting but very legal.
.... you've never seen Star Wars? or do you just mean KK hasn't?
