Shang Tsuang vs Dr. Strange
Jax vs Doc Ock
Baraka vs Venom
Sub-Zero vs Iceman
Sonya Blade vs Elektra
Liu Kang vs Daredevil
Scorpion vs Ghost Rider
Kano vs Cyclops
Raiden vs Silver Surfer
Kitana vs The Prowler
Last edited by American Dragon on Jan 25th, 2009 at 06:59 PM
How about Spider-man in it like versing Johnny Cage. And have Wolverine vs. Baraka instead, as well Elektra vs. Kitana or Li Mei, and Doc Ock vs. Goro, and also have the Thor vs. Shao Kahn. Ooh and Blade vs. Natara (that vampire from Mortal Kombat)
Depends on which version.
Regular Jax probably gets owned. Cybernetic Jax would most likely curb Ock.
Venom. Though if it was Gargon, it'd be a good fight.
Iceman
Elektra
Lui Kang .
stalemate
Cyk
Dunno. Depends on if Surfer can manip Raiden's energy.
Kitana, she's vastly more powerful.
__________________ "damn jinzin, you're a real trooper, you provde fact after fact and pages and pages of proof and these wanton miscreants just keep at it"~MERC
__________________ "damn jinzin, you're a real trooper, you provde fact after fact and pages and pages of proof and these wanton miscreants just keep at it"~MERC
__________________ "damn jinzin, you're a real trooper, you provde fact after fact and pages and pages of proof and these wanton miscreants just keep at it"~MERC
Raiden is HUMAN in speed based on his fighting vids, he is not even class 10 in strength, he has been hurt by attacks of less than class 10, he can manipulate lightning(NOT versatile), and has never even destroyed a planet in canon.
you're not quite getting it are you. You need to prove unsupported claims to make them valid, just stating them over and over is Ad nauseum not an argument.
What they have done... hm, Well you see there's a bit of a contradiction between Raiden in game and in canon.
Raiden in canon may not have destroyed a planet, but he was stated to be strong enough to do so whilst fighting on it.
It's because of Raiden's fight with Shinnok that the Ice Age happened. Keeping in mind he was fighting to protect the planet and that he was a newborn god at the time it took place, that's pretty impressive.
He's never been hurt by class 10 strength, so I'm not sure what you're talking about there and his speed is enough to contend with other fast superhuman combatants while in mortal form. Contrary to what people think, SS does not fight with the speed of the flash, or even that of quick silver. His h2h skills are atroceous. His traveling speed is incredible, but so what? Raiden's a teleporter, I hardly see an advantage there.
When it comes to sheer power, strength, and durability. All of those are fairly open ended so it's quite hard to give any legitimate answers regardless of fan association or speculative reasoning. Raiden "should be" close to Surfer in every regard, but there's really no proof that he is aside from a few things and most of it hyporbolic. On the other hand his true limits while as a god have never been seen with the exception of being beaten by the spawn of an elder god.
It's of worthy note that DC felt well enough of Raiden to pit him against Supes in their finale, but given the stroyline that might not also mean much.
I don't care if you guys think Surfer wins, but stating that he's stronger, blah blah blah is really unsupported by any legitimate proof.
Who'd win in a fight is an open ended question indeed.
Though I do agree SS is more versatile.
__________________ "damn jinzin, you're a real trooper, you provde fact after fact and pages and pages of proof and these wanton miscreants just keep at it"~MERC
Gender: Male Location: Ontario
but still reppin naija
Well i hardly thought it was a debatable point but ill certainly prove it.
Unlike raiden, SS has actually easily destroyed a planet while holding back. As well as created blackholes as aftereffects of his energy blasts. Far more impressive than anything Raiden has ever actually done or come close to doing.
SS does not fight like flash in the sense that he does not attack physically at high speeds. ( though as weve seen against nova who has FTL refelexes he is easily capable of such). He however has shown that he can launch attacks(blasts) at superspeeds while on his board. His h2h skills are irrelevant in this match as there is no logical reason for SS to get into a purely h2h confrontation with Raiden. Even then he has a huge strength advantage ( overpowered the hulk and multiple others) and and even greater durability advantage. ( fought inside blackhole while weakened, survived supernovas unscathed, taken numerous attacks from galactus level beings etc). further in battle SS actually has been able to actually react ahead of and operate faster than teleportation.
The evidence of SS power output durability and strength is there. If Raiden has no concrete feats comparable to such then by forum rules he loses badly.
Actually saying raiden is comparable to surfer in many ways is what is completely unsupported by any proof. On the forum we use feats when debating characters. Raiden has no feats to put him on SS level period.
__________________
All thanks goes to starlock.
"Beware trolls, know me and know fear"
The implication is and has been since MK I that Raiden ciertainly has the means to do the same and the only reason he didn't while fighting Shinnok was because he was trying to protect it. Once again, the goal is not to destroy the planet so it's fairly impressive given that it was a younger weaker version of Raiden.
True. And I would not argue otherwise.
True.
That's a baseless assumption on your part, though little evidence exists for Raiden's sheer strength level, no limited has ever been suggested for the character which makes this impossible to determine.
I agree to the durability point, but it's once again a baseless assumption. If Raiden is fighting at a planet busting level as a newborn one assumes him to have an incredibly high level of durability.
Scans?
That's just it. There's hardly any evidene to support Raiden. going by games, he's strong enough to bust planets, that much is certain, and his fight with Shao Khan in MKIIIU caused all of outworld to quake, which is hundreds of planets amalgamated together. If the comics are any indication to his power he was able to rip through demensional walls with little effort. There's never been a stated limit to his power output and that's a problem, because we know he's powerful, but we don't know just how powerful.
What I said, was, Raiden "Should be"....
That's ideal.
As to if he is, well that's, as I stated an open ended question.
I disagree. I would say flying from his pantheon around the world before Kano could surface from water is an incredible speed feat.
Causing a storm that spread across outworld is an incredible feat while weakened.
ripping through demensional walls, planet busting and outworld quaking are all extremely powerful feats that cosmics do on the daily. So he "should be" around Surfer's level. The only thing is that the game canon doesn't give us much to work with.
What you CAN argue is against his lack of feats, which is fine but you can't keep stating that Surfer better period. Because it's not that simple. He's better until Raiden has similar feats maybe but at the same time we've never seen Raiden's limit to his power at an all out level seeing as the only time he ever went all out was against Shao Khan while he was weakening due to the outworld merger.
So as I asked, based on what. Because it's not Raiden's limitations, but your speculation of them. And that's fine, I just want you to know that.
__________________ "damn jinzin, you're a real trooper, you provde fact after fact and pages and pages of proof and these wanton miscreants just keep at it"~MERC
Gender: Male Location: Ontario
but still reppin naija
Concrete feats hold far more sway than off panel occurences. There is way too much context and circumstances which we are unaware of when things happen off panel. SS has actually shown that his full power output is considerably superior to planet busting.
While i understand that no limit has been suggested regarding raidens strength, since he is being compared with another person, we have no choice but to go by what the actually have accomplished and using that Surfer far greater than raiden
In some respect yes it is an assumption but im am basing it on the two characters respective feats. Yes raiden may not have alot to go on and due to that it is probably difficult to determine his true power level. However because in this case he is being compared to another character, the only way to come to a conclusion is to refer to the feats both of them have performed. Raiden supposedly fighting at planet busting level is nice and all but it still does not give us enough info to place his durability close to surfer level . Fighting inside a blackhole and flyin thru stars are feats that are far superior.
Note this is while he is actually off his board. He is able to calculate the trajectory of a being in midteleportation and attack it on its arrival.(example of surfers uber mental processing speed)
As i said its unfortunate that he doesnt have enough feats for us to really guage his power level. However until he does in a forum fight he has no chance againstt surfer at all.
this hardly puts him on surfer level speed wise. Surfer has searched all of earth before Dr strange could complete a sentence, Travelled to evry capital city on the planet in a second or two, flown five hundred thousand light years in a few seconds etc.
Creating blackholes due to his energy output,outpowering mephisto in his own realm, deactivating all the machines on earth, evolving planets billions of years and many other surfer feats trump the few feats that raiden has. The fact is that based on his accomplished feats raiden actually cant do very much to surfer while based on those same feats surfer can do a whole lot to him.
And that is what i AM arguing against. Due to Raidens lack of feats( the conclusive evidence used in forum fights) i can comfortably say that on KMC he loses badly to surfer until he has the concrete feats to show otherwise.
True it is based on my assumption of raidens limitations based on the feats he has accomplished. Are those his true limitations? I dont know and really dont care. But in regards to who would win a match between he and surfer on KMC, its definitely surfer until raiden accomplishes the feats to prove otherwise.
__________________
All thanks goes to starlock.
"Beware trolls, know me and know fear"
Isn't that basically what I'm trying to explain to you?
Uh... I get that... As I said, you can make the argument that Surfer's feats> Raiden until proven otherwise. But you can't make baseless assumptions that he's stronger, faster, more powerful etc etc when Raien's never capped out his limits. You can only argue "until proven otherwise".
Once again, it's still a baseless assumption seeing how we've never seen Raiden's limitations... If a character is strong enough to show he's class 100 without effort. It's possible/probable that he might be a 100+ ton lifter too. Without any known limitations it's hard to estimate WHAT a character is capible of. In that regard you can't keep making baseless claims about them. All you can argue is using until proven otherwise arguments... Which is fine.
He saw which way the guy was moving while starting his teleporting. pretty crappy teleport.
Based on your assumptions about his unknown limitations.
fair enough.
Mephisto's been beaten by the proffesor Hulk in his own real with one punch, by Black Panther, and a couple other mid level heroes iirc. That's not really that impressive.
I'm not sure how deactivating all the machines on earth means he's more powerful than raiden.
though the black hole feat is impressive.
But that's not how you represented your argument. You just flat out stated that he was faster, stronger, etc etc.. When no evidence really exists to make that concrete. He's faster by comparitive feats, stronger because of his feats of strength. But it's not because of Raiden's known limitations.
You should care because it DOES matter. you can't conclusively state a winner of the fight if you don't understand their limitations, you can quage a speculatory one but that's really all you can do. I'll accept the fact that you don't think Raiden can win based on his lack of feats. But nothing about your first statement on the matter is conclusive... at all.
__________________ "damn jinzin, you're a real trooper, you provde fact after fact and pages and pages of proof and these wanton miscreants just keep at it"~MERC
KMC Community Forums
Jan 25th, 2009 06:46 PM
"damn jinzin, you're a real trooper, you provde fact after fact and pages and pages of proof and these wanton miscreants just keep at it"~MERC
