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Black Widow vs Wonder Woman with a twist.
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lawest9
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Black Widow vs Wonder Woman with a twist.

H2H only, Diana has no physical superhuman powers, just left with her intense combat skills with no weapons for either, who wins?

Old Post Sep 27th, 2022 02:16 AM
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Smurph
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If it's equalized stats then slight edge to Widow.

If Diana is reduced to actual "human" stats then Widow stomps.

Old Post Sep 27th, 2022 09:28 AM
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DarkSaint85
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Smurph
If it's equalized stats then slight edge to Widow.

If Diana is reduced to actual "human" stats then Widow stomps.


Is that because you give an advantage to WWs experience at that level?


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Old Post Sep 27th, 2022 10:36 AM
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Smurph
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I don't follow

Old Post Sep 27th, 2022 10:51 AM
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DarkSaint85
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Why wouldn't Widow stomp at equalised stats as well, am curious.


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Old Post Sep 27th, 2022 11:07 AM
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Smurph
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Oh I just think Widow's base stats border on superhuman. So if Widow wins with equalized stats then her advantage is that much greater if Wonder Woman has worse stats.

As to 'stomp' vs 'slight edge' yeah, maybe I'm giving too much benefit of the doubt to Diana. Widow varies a bit but her highs are definitely above where I'd place powerless Diana.

Old Post Sep 27th, 2022 11:13 AM
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h1a8
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Smurph
Oh I just think Widow's base stats border on superhuman. So if Widow wins with equalized stats then her advantage is that much greater if Wonder Woman has worse stats.

As to 'stomp' vs 'slight edge' yeah, maybe I'm giving too much benefit of the doubt to Diana. Widow varies a bit but her highs are definitely above where I'd place powerless Diana.

Widow is a peak human right (by real world standards)? So WW having peak human ability (by real world standards) would mean that the are approximately physical equals.


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Old Post Sep 27th, 2022 11:31 AM
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Smurph
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by h1a8
Widow is a peak human right (by real world standards)?
are you asking a question or making an assertion

Old Post Sep 27th, 2022 11:36 AM
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DarkSaint85
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laughing out loud


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Old Post Sep 27th, 2022 01:35 PM
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lawest9
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Don't believe that Widow is more skilled than Diana.

Old Post Sep 27th, 2022 09:32 PM
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Konton
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Diana easy.


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Old Post Sep 27th, 2022 10:55 PM
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Smurph
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Based on?

Old Post Sep 27th, 2022 11:04 PM
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Enzeru
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Depends on how highly you value Black Widows skill and how much emphasis you put on high level martial arts compared to Wonder Womans combat training.

You had Deathstroke dancing around Wonder Woman and saying how her old greek fighting skills don't compare with the plethora of various martial arts he knew. Obviously that in itself is a weird execution of an idea, but his point still stands. We would never rank Wonder Woman as a better fighter than your Karate Kids and Lady Shivas.

I'd back Black Widow. I think overall her fighting ability has to be higher than Wonder Womans, who sometimes survives on her stats alone. Black Widow requires skill to survive.

Old Post Sep 28th, 2022 11:23 AM
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Smurph
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^ yeah

I wouldn't give a powerless Wonder Woman odds against Taskmaster, Elektra, or Lady Bullseye but Widow either beat or stalemated each of them. I don't think Diana would beat Punisher as decisively, either.

Widow has just gotten a significant push.

Old Post Sep 28th, 2022 04:07 PM
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DarkSaint85
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It's strange because both ladies have had films come out which normally means a push in the comics, but Widow had more of one than WW.


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Old Post Sep 28th, 2022 04:26 PM
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h1a8
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Smurph
are you asking a question or making an assertion


See the question mark?


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Old Post Sep 28th, 2022 04:35 PM
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h1a8
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Enzeru
Depends on how highly you value Black Widows skill and how much emphasis you put on high level martial arts compared to Wonder Womans combat training.

You had Deathstroke dancing around Wonder Woman and saying how her old greek fighting skills don't compare with the plethora of various martial arts he knew. Obviously that in itself is a weird execution of an idea, but his point still stands. We would never rank Wonder Woman as a better fighter than your Karate Kids and Lady Shivas.

I'd back Black Widow. I think overall her fighting ability has to be higher than Wonder Womans, who sometimes survives on her stats alone. Black Widow requires skill to survive.


If you A B compare characters then use their best non contradictory showings. Don't use the best for one and a lower for another. That gives a sense of bias and not objectivity.

Writer's intent is That WW is very comparable to Batman at h2h.
Writer's intent.


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Old Post Sep 28th, 2022 04:44 PM
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StyleTime
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by h1a8
Widow is a peak human right (by real world standards)?

No. She's above real world peak humans. Virtually all major street levelers are.

And Natasha was biochemically enhanced which offers some explanation other than just "I trained hard."

Old Post Sep 28th, 2022 07:24 PM
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h1a8
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by StyleTime
No. She's above real world peak humans. Virtually all major street levelers are.

And Natasha was biochemically enhanced which offers some explanation other than just "I trained hard."
There are no peak humans in the real world. A peak human is the strongest a human can possibly be. It's a theoretical limit. She's definitely peak human (not superhuman by any stretch).

Biochemical enchance didn't increase her strength. It affects other factors, like aging, healing, etc.

If WW starts at peak human (equal to BW) then WW wins
If WW starts at 80% of Black widow then it's a toss up


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Old Post Sep 29th, 2022 12:53 AM
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Smurph
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by h1a8


Writer's intent is That WW is very comparable to Batman at h2h.
Writer's intent.
Proof?

Old Post Sep 29th, 2022 12:56 AM
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