Phoenix lore has been expanded upon in recent years. The White Hot Room has been confirmed as the Phoenix's true form, with the firebird a manifestation that it creates and acts through.
The WHR has been confirmed on panel to be the starting point of Marvel creativity. Everything that is a created thing within Marvel is facilitated by the WHR. It is the starting point of creativity and it decides what can be made.
So all realities, all entities of Marvel creation derive from the Phoenix in its capacity as TOAAs creation tool.
Hope was a literal shard of the Phoenix as revealed at the end of Xmen Forever and Legion just about the most powerful mutant about. So its hardly a low showing. It didn't kill the Phoenix, just helped reboot it into a new incarnation as per Rachel's plan.
With this expansion on Lore the full Phoenix Force is literally TOAAs creation arm. Lets not conflate the full Phoenix Force/White Hot Room with firebird manifestations. It'd be the equivalent of DCs Source. Is Captain Atom stomping the Source?
1. toaa was proven to be pathetic back stalin in thanos infinity ending, he couldn't fix balance in one reality, he admitted he is only omnipotent in a perfect system.
in no way is he equivalent to the presence. for starter marvel cosmology is much smaller than dc.
2. comparing phoenix force to the source is even more retarded. the source under dematteis/morrison/snyder have been confirmed to be one and the same with presence/the overvoid. phoenix force would be a insignificant speck.
he wiped out and recreate the infinite multiverse again and again and again and again and again, to put it more precisely.
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Last edited by MrMind on Mar 2nd, 2025 at 05:34 PM
Great feat. Which specific comic/issue did this take place in?
Still doesn't beat being the starting point of Marvel creativity. Literally the creation arm of TOAA that every being, every reality every iota of energy and matter in Marvel derives from. Despite being the power behind the multiverse, all it's power isn't summed up in the multiverse with its true form the WHR remaining an infinite wellspring of creativity
The fight is decided by KO, death, BFR, or incapacitation.
Jean with the Phoenix Force can be knocked out or killed with sufficient force. Her ability to resurrect is irrelevant, as it still counts as a loss under forum rules.
Much of his might vested in his creation (unlike the Phoenix whose WHR form remains an infinite wellspring of creativity despite sustaining creation) to the point where its unable to bypass Monitor erected dimensional walls: https://imgur.com/rxuKEgP https://imgur.com/WdoaVDZ
The Overvoid being completely oblivious to the existence of a long developed creation (views into creation and we see images of superheroes) despite apparently being one and the same as the Source (the power said to intentionally have brought about creation through its "Hands" - lack of omniscience) https://imgur.com/2IzD9vV https://imgur.com/pEDSiRy
The Overvoid not understanding the concept of stories (lack of omniscience) and mental overload resulting in its probe splitting in two (lack of omnipotence) https://imgur.com/eUtge8K
The Source, Presence and Overvoid being the same entity isn’t a plus, that prevents the low showings from being written off as characteristic of a lower aspect. These showings across all 3 aspects is conclusive evidence of fallibility and a lack of true omnipotence and omniscience. So lets accept that neither DCs Supreme Being or Marvels are truly supreme as per a dictionary definition of the the reference, but for ease of drawing comparisons within debate, they are both relatively supreme in their respective continuities and are to be treated as equivalents.
Got a comic title and issue number for this so i can see whats actually explicitly depicted?
For goodness sake are you still holding on to a grudge from like 3yrs ago? Let it go lol
Where on earth are you reading spite from my posts in this thread? That is what id class as baseless interpretation and arguably spite out of a misplaced grudge that you really shouldve worked through by now.
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Last edited by GalacticStorm on Mar 2nd, 2025 at 09:48 PM
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