Contradictions could be a sign that the scripture was edited and tampered with...How else can you explain?
Matt. 5:22 Whosoever shall say Thou fool, shall be in danger of hellfire.
Matt. 23:17 (Jesus said) Ye fools and blind.
Has anyone seen God?
John 1:18 No man hath seen God at anytime. (Ex 33:20; Tim. 6:16; John 6:46; I John 4:12)
Gen. 32:30 For I have seen god face to face. (Ex. 33:11, 23; Is. 6:1; Job 42:5)
Should we kill?
Ex. 20:13 Thou shalt not commit murder.
Ex. 32:27 Thus saith the Lord God of Israel, put every man his sword by his side...and slay every man his brother...companion..neighbor.(See also 1 Sam. 6:19; 15:2,3; Num. 15:36)
Ex 20:5 "...for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God..." (see also Ex 34:14, Deut 4:24, Josh 24:19, and Nah 1:2)
Gal 5:19-20 "Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are...jealousy..." (See also 2 Cor 12:20)
Should we tell lies?
Ex. 20:16 Thou shalt not bear false witness.(Prov. 12:22; Rev. 21:8)
1 Kings 22:23 The Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the Lord hath spoken evil concerning thee. (II Thess. 2:11; Josh. 2:4-6 with James 2:25)
Should we steal?
Ex. 20:15 Thou shalt not steal. (Lev. 19:13)
Ex. 3:22. And ye shall spoil the Egyptians. (Ex. 12:35-36; Luke 19:29-33)
Shall we keep the Sabbath?
Ex. 20:8 Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy. (Ex. 31:15; Num. 15:32,36)
Is. 1:13 The new moons and the Sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity. (John 5:16; Matt. 12:1-5)
Shall we make Graven images?
Ex. 20:4. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven...earth...water. (Lev. 26:1)
EX. 25:18 And thou shalt make two cherubims of gold, of beaten work shalt thou make them.
Are we "saved" through works?
Eph. 2:8,9 For by grace are ye saved through faith...not of works. (Rom. 3:20, 28; Gal. 2:16)
James 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.(Matt. 19:16-21)
Should good works be seen?
Matt. 5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works. (I Peter 2:12)
Matt. 6:1-4 Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them...that thine alms may be in secret. (Matt. 23:5)
Should we own slaves?
Lev. 25:45-46 Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy...and they shall be your posession...they shall be your bondmen forever. (Gen. 9:25; Ex. 21:2,7; Joel 3:8; Luke 12:47; Col. 3:22)
Is. 58:6 Undo the heavy burdens...break every yoke. (Matt. 23:10)
Does God change his mind?
Mal. 3:6. For I am the Lord; I change not. Num. 23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent. (Ezek. 24:14; James 1:17)
Ex. 32:14. And the Lord repented of the evil which he had thought to do unto his people. (Gen. 6:6; Jonah 3:10; Sam. 2:30-31; II Kings 20:1-6; Num. 16:20-35)
Are we punished for our parent's sins?
Ex. 20:5 For I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generations. (Ex. 34:7)
Ezek. 18:20 The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father.
Is God good or evil?
Psa. 145:9. The Lord is good to all. (Deut. 32:4; James 1:13)
Is. 45:7 I make peace and create evil. I the Lord do all these things. (Lam 3:38; Jer. 18:11; Ezek. 20:25)
Is God Peaceable?
John 14:27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you. (Luke 2:14; Acts 10:36)
Matt. 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth, I came not to send peace, but a sword. (Matt. 10:35-37; Luke 22:36)
Was Jesus trustworthy?
John 8:14 Though I bear record of myself, yet my record is true.
John 5:31 If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.
Gender: Male Location: Massachusettes, United States
The Bible does NOT contradict itself. Every "contradiction" that can be pointed out is based on a mistake, a confusing translation, taking a verse out of context (if you want to understand the bible, read the lines in between the ones you have underlined), out of a misunderstanding of the culture of Biblical times, or on someone who is grasping for straws looking for contradictions. A few examples from the first post, with the type of mistake noted.
CONTEXT
Matt. 5:22 Whosoever shall say Thou fool, shall be in danger of hellfire.
Matt. 23:17 (Jesus said) Ye fools and blind.
Read Matt. 5:22 in context: "But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire."
Here Jesus speaks about saying things out of anger (and even adds without cause but we can even ignore that, as some ancient manuscripts do not include these words). Further, He is talking about speaking to one's brother (fellow believer in Christ), for what that is worth. Basically, Jesus was talking about throwing insults around at people, not the literal use of the word fool. When He is talking to the Pharisees in 23:17, He is just saying what He sees as the truth, He is not using a derogotory term.
TRANSLATION
John 8:14 Though I bear record of myself, yet my record is true.
John 5:31 If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.
This is pretty easily cleared up. It gets into the actual original Greek. The ancient Greek language has many intricacies and tenses and relationships between verbs and subjects and adjectives and plurality and whatnot that Enlgish does not, so it's difficult to translate things in a way that matches the original meaning. Also, this translation is the 1611 KJV, and the English used in it is VERY different from what we would say today. In fact, many "contradictions" arise because of words that actually changed in meaning from then to now.
In John 5:31, Jesus is basically saying that if He tries to testify about Himself, nobody will believe Him. If I go to court and say I didn't do it, nobody will believe me because I am just trying to defend myself. It takes someone else to back me up. In John 8:14, he is saying that even though he is talking about himself, what he has to say is true. Pretty simple.
GRASPING FOR STRAWS/TRANSLATION
Ex. 20:13 Thou shalt not commit murder.
Ex. 32:27 Thus saith the Lord God of Israel, put every man his sword by his side...and slay every man his brother...companion..neighbor.(See also 1 Sam. 6:19; 15:2,3; Num. 15:36)
This one is a little complicated only because it involves very old Hebrew, and it is always difficult to ascertain definitive meanings for such ancient Hebrew words.
If we take the English of Exodus 20:5, we can see how it's grasping for straws. Does it say don't kill? No. Does it say don't kill under any circumstances? No. It says don't murder. The other statement is basically refering to the institution of the death penalty. The people being slain are being punished. Would we say that a state executioner is murdering a man who has been sentenced to death? We may disagree with the death penalty, but the man is not commiting murder. Neither is a man commiting murder when he kills in the course of a war. This is grasping for straws.
The difficulty of translation comes in that some people argue that we do not know what the Hebrew word here means, and it may mean kill. The he word for murder here is ratsach. It is not clear what this word means exactly. However, it is used in the Bible very infrequently. The few times it is used, the context involves killing in a murderous way. In Job 24:14 for instance it is used in comparing someone to a thief. In Judges 20:4 it refers to a woman murdered by a gang of men involved in what we'd call a home invasion today. The other examples are similar. It is very reasonable therefore to conclude that the word refers not to all killing, but to killing in a murderous way.
MISUNDERSTANDING CULTURE
Ex. 20:4. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven...earth...water. (Lev. 26:1)
EX. 25:18 And thou shalt make two cherubims of gold, of beaten work shalt thou make them.
The command to not make graven images is there because of a very specific reason: graven images were used for pagan worship. Pagan gods such as Molech were always worshipped through a statue or image of some kind. The command refers to images being made for worship as false gods. To take it in the way it is being presented as a contradiction, it would be a sin to whittle a carving of a squirrel or something. God isn't concerned with art or decoration, but false gods.
Furthermore, in ancient cultures, an image, as it is described here, referred to something which was the focus of a deity. It means something where the deity "resides," such as in a statue of Molech or something. The cheribum would not constitute such an image. It was made for decoration, not worship. For this reason, most translations do not translate the words as "graven image," but as "idols," or "false gods."
That is just a sample, and I am going to quit because I am getting tired. The truth is that the Bible was written 2000 years ago, in a completely different time. It has to be studied just like any other ancient works. We must spend a lot of time reading and re-reading Shakespere to understand it, and yet the Bible is expected to come across like a children's book. There is not a single supposed "contradiction" in the Bible that holds up upon research and often times simply reading the entire verse instead of just the part that is quoted.
In fact, did you know that the New Testament is regarded as the most accurate historical document of ancient times, and is used as a source to determine many of the things students learn about in history class in school?
The Bible as a whole was written by dozens of people over thousands of years. Despite this, not ONCE in it's entirety does it contradict itself on the smallest matter of its teachings. It would be INCREDIBLY easy, and all it would take would be for one person to make a tiny mistake somewhere along the line. This is incredible and vouches greatly for the entire truth of it's teachings!
no it is just the excuse made when they cant answer the question, it is just like the "god works in mysterious ways" kind of answer.
They wouldnt admit flaws in the bible even if it took a chunk of their ass
Gender: Male Location: Massachusettes, United States
The ONLY way to read the Bible is to study it in the original language. In fact, the only way to really read anything written in a foreign language is to read it in the original language. There are too many problems with translations.
The translators of the KJV in 1611 essentially had to reconstruct the ancient Greek language, because it had not been mostly forgotten for 1000 years as the Catholic church refused to allow any versions other than Latin. They not only made many mistakes in translating that modern scholars have and are correcting, but they also used an English which is very, very different from what we use todaty, and not only in that the grammar is more complicated.
In 1611, for instance:
"allege" meant what we mean today when we say "prove"
"conversation" meant "behavior" (!!)
"by and by" meant "immediately" (exactly the opposite of what it means now)
There are many examples. All those quotes in that post are from the KJV. Modern translations often correct those mistakes, such as that of saying "image" when it means "idol."
Actually, as many translational errors as there are, most "problems" in the Bible come from other reasons.... probably the biggest is just not reading the full passage. People LOVE to take little snippets and pair them to make contradictions.
I am just making these up, but to take the sentence, "Jesus likes fish," and the sentence "Jesus did not like fish that was overcooked," drop the "that was overcooked," and say it is a contradiction is a very popular thing to do.
Gender: Male Location: Massachusettes, United States
I was actually refering to the conotation that the statement expressed.
However, I will say this: someone who reads that (or anything) has every right to call it rabble, provided that he or she can provide as much scholarly research and documentation as the "rabble." I could call Einstein's Theory of Relativity (the book) rabble, but my statement would hold no weight unless I could provide research of the same caliber or greater than the book to the contrary.
In other words, the link cites countless scholars, historians, documents, and facts. If all that one can respond to that with is "it's all rabble," then the opinion is invalid. (and yes, opinions CAN be valid or invalid. The type of opinion of "I like Coke" and "I like Pepsi" can't be, because it's STRICTLY a matter of opinion, or rather preference. Any opinion that concerns matters of fact can be valid or invalid because it's not ONLY a matter of preference but also a matter of evidence.)
__________________ John 3:16 ^Thanks Ast Rofan^
Last edited by Lazerlike42 on Jun 7th, 2005 at 08:02 AM
just like it has to be provided reasearh and documentation about that it aint rabble. It is just as manyhistorians, reasearchers and scholars that consider it rabble so what it would all boil down to is bunches of links to scholars, historians researchers, banging heads.
KMC Community Forums
May 22nd, 2005 10:19 PM
John 3:16 ^Thanks Ast Rofan^
