Gender: Male Location: Drifting off around the bend
Regardless of the claims on the site, Temples were always described extremely detailed in the scriptures. Their structure was important. During the wandering the Temple was simple and easily moved, following this the Temple was structured with great care, using items that are held precious as materials and decorations for the Temple.
As to the rest of the page it seems interesting, although heavily biased and in need of a more objective stance. I personally am rather skeptical of the claims made.
I think it actually presents some decent ideas, although the Amen thing was pretty badly argued. I believe some of it is true, some of is not (like what Regret said). It wasn't too badly biased, and did explain the reasonably logic behind some customs.
The root of the word comes from Hebrew aman, which means to nourish and make strong. Emunah (faithfulness) also comes from aman. The ancient Greeks used the word (AMHN) from Hebrew to mean 'truth', 'surely', 'absolutely'. It is one of just a few Hebrew words which have been imported unchanged into Church liturgy. The current meaning of Amen and its pronunciation is pretty much the same in any modern language and religion...and Egyptian..Christians
Christians say either 'Ahh-men' or 'Ay-men'.
The 'Ahh-men' pronunciation tends to be a bit more formal and used in liturgy, choral music, etc. An example can be heard in the closing part of Handel's Messiah 'Worthy is the Lamb'2. The Ahh-men in the final chorus is repeated dozens of times, runs to six pages in a typical choral score, and usually takes around 3 minutes 40 seconds to sing.
The 'Ay-men' pronunciation is often associated with evangelical Christians and gospel singing. Unlike Handel's Messiah, the gospel chorus 'Amen' has only five words, all the same (Ay----men, Ay----men, Ay----men, Ay-men, Ay--men.) yet can take much longer to perform as it is repeated over and over again, bringing the congregation into harmony.
Jews
For Jews, Amen is also an acronym for El Melech Ne'eman, which means "Mighty, Faithful King".
Muslims
Muslims use Amen (Amin or Ameen) in the same way as Christians and Jews, even though the word does not appear in the Qur'an. Muslims say it after reciting Surah al-Fatihah, after completing their prayers, at the end of letters, etc.
Buddhists and Hindus
Many Buddhists and Hindus also use Amen at the end of prayers and as concurrence in the same way as the other religions.
But where did it all begin?
Pagans
From old Egyptian texts we can see that people believed the Sun was the emblem of the Creator. They called the Sun Ra, and all other gods and goddesses were forms of the Creator. One of these gods was Amen; a secret, hidden and mysterious god named variously Amen, Amon, Amun, Ammon and Amounra. For the first eleven dynasties (c. 3000-1987 B.C.) Amen was just a minor god, but by the 17th dynasty (c. 1500 B.C.) he had been elevated to be the national god of southern Egypt. This position gave Amen the attributes and characteristics of the most ancient gods, and his name became Amen-Ra, that is, a supreme form of God the Creator. By the 18th Dynasty (1539-1295 B.C.) a college had been established to study Amen-Ra and as a focal point for worship.
"Finally, we may note that the word Amen occurs not infrequently in early Christian inscriptions, and that it was often introduced into anathemas and gnostic spells. Moreover, as the Greek letters which form Amen according to their numerical values total 99 (alpha=1, mu=40, epsilon=8, nu=50), this number often appears in inscriptions, especially of Egyptian origin, and a sort of magical efficacy seems to have been attributed to its symbol."
(Catholic Encyclopedia Vol. 1; 1907)
If it quacks like a duck ands walks like a duck......
Last edited by debbiejo on Oct 14th, 2006 at 11:55 PM
Gender: Male Location: Drifting off around the bend
Yes, but I am sorry, I know a girl named Venus, and I must assume it to be an error because she is not the planet Venus. And she was Christian, so her parents must have been pagans and worshipped the Goddess Venus. Her name as I knew it must have been in error, as she was a Christian, and her name was first used in reference to the Goddess Venus and not just a name. I will have to refer to her as female offspring number two of the Smith family down the street, because obviously her parents greatly respected the beliefs of those worshipping the Greek Goddess Venus...Please
Language is merely language, similarities are merely similarities. There is no need to infer some sort of derivation from other beliefs, it could easily be said that pagan similarities are actually aspects influenced by Christianity and not vice versa.
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Robbin' from the rich to give to themselves
Last edited by Regret on Oct 15th, 2006 at 12:32 AM
It is a question of assimilation I believe. As said in the US Constitution mentions Jesus thread - the fact it is mentioned is not indicative of religious belief. Just like "act of God" isn't in an insurance document.
However words, virtually all words have a history, and a good many can be traced back. When I did my English extension we got tables of the evolution of English, showing the links and dead ends - how a hand full of proto languages spread out into most moder languages. The noun Venus has a history and a meaning. But it can be used as a name without subscribing to the meaning. However that doesn't deny its history.
Similar with anything.
The word Amen was in use long before Christianity. Christianity was a religion base in classical language which itself had a long history derived from as far a field as the Mycenaean, Etruscans and Egyptians. I think it is perfectly valid to think that the word "amen" has a history prior to Christianity, and that Christianity assimilated it from elsewhere. Certainly the history and meaning of the word doesn't have to be recognised by those using it (just like the name Venus doesn't mean the parents recognise its astronomical of mythological past.) But ignoring it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. A name, a word, a festival, a symbol - originally pagan in origin assimlated into another religion and made their own.
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From even the greatest of horrors irony is seldom absent.
Err... Except that Christianity came AFTER the mentioned Pagan religions. Or is that just a lie from the Satan-worshipping historians?
All it shows is that religions are invariably created by somebody, and generally have roots in previous religions. It's not unique to Christianity—everybody does it.
Yes. But I'm 100% positive that amen was no longer a reference to the Egyptian sun god when it entered the Bible. The Jews lived in Egypt for a long time and the word was probably used a lot. The French use English words, the English use French words, it happens.
Gender: Unspecified Location: One for the other hand
My thinking is if it is to be so divine and holy and one of God’s laws is that you shale worship no one but him, why would he use the terms of items used by other religions. Couldn’t he think up any thing new and fresh?
Gender: Male Location: Drifting off around the bend
That is only an assumption, not a surety. If Biblical claims are true, a religious tradition has existed since the beginning of man. It follows that all other religions could be derived from the original Adamic religion, if such were the case then all common religious traditions could be derived from an extremely early Biblical religion in some form. From a Mormon stance Egyptian mythology was probably influenced by Abraham.
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Oct 14th, 2006 11:12 PM
