yoda, while very powerful, doesnt have a chance against an ancient sith lord, with extensive knowlage of both sides of the force. many of this knowlage has been lost by the time yoda is born 3000 years later. not taking anything away from yoda though, he is the most powerful jedi of his time.
__________________ Peace is a lie
There is only passion
Through passion I gain strength
Through strength I gain power
Through power I gain victory
Through victory my chains are broken
The Force shall set me free
Registered: Feb 2005
Location: Hiding from zombies
You're both insane.
Yoda couldn't take Dooku easily, and he didn't defeat Sidious. Now, both of those Sith are inferior by far to any ancient Sith lord, even Bane. Revan is perhaps the strongest of the human Sith since Exar Kun, and has defeated powerful allies, studied extensive Sith and Jedi fighting forms, and is a wiser combatant than Yoda. Yoda may be old, but he has lived in an era of mostly peace. How many of those 900 years do you think that old fart spent on his ottoman in the Jedi Temple? Yoda was no Sith slayer. He did not fight Jedi and Sith for years, as evan did. Yoda IS the man, I admit as much. I like Yoda, and I've always felt he should never have raised his blade, considering he was the one to emphasis Form Zero, but still... Just because Yoda can flip around like crack and is the man isn't a valid reason for him defeating ancient Sith. You're both seriously underestimating the fact that Revan was an undisputed Sith Lord among hundreds of dark Jedi and Sith acolytes and lords, and this during the Golden Era of the Sith as prophesied by Marka Ragnos himself.
But if you both have valid reasons for why Yoda can win this fight, by all means... Impress me.
Registered: May 2005
Location: A galaxy far, far away....
Okay, I think, since Yoda is agreed to be better than Windu, that he could take either Sidious or Tyranus in a fair fight. I think Lucas got caught up in showing how cool Yoda was in his first fight, making it long and exciting. If it didn't have to be a monumentary fight because it was the first fight, then I think he would have won quickly. Also, Yoda wasn't trying to kill Dooku, I don't think. Thus, I believe that Yoda could take Sidious any other day, on a day when the pressure wasn't on so much. I mean, come on - the fate of the Republic depended on his survival - I don't think he would risk it. Thus, I think Yoda was capable of beating anyone of his day, leading me to think that Yoda could also at least stand up to a guy like Kun. Skywalker beat him, admittedly only his spirit, and he beat him by working smarter, not harder. This was Yoda's specialty. So, I think he could hold his own against Revan in a fair fight. He also had just as much experience, maybe more. He would know what he was doing and would probably find a way to take him down.
well this is DS Revan after he invades the republic which is in his first reign when he's not as strong. Yoda might have a small chance against this Revan, but I think the Dark Lord would still win.
__________________
Thanks to Janus for the great Sig.
What I can't figure out it why in Star Wars, you guys keep thinking that Jedi and Sith loose knowlege over time as opposed to gaining it. I mean, hasn't mankind gotten smarter over the last 3956 years(time when Revan was alive before B.B.Y.)? Got from hammer chisels to a lot of big pressuriezed chisels with hydraulics and stuff. Seeing as a chainsaw might be 100 times faster at cutting down tree's than a handsaw, shouldn't the movie Jedi be 100 times better?
__________________ http://darthglentract.tripod.com/index.html Go Jawa's!!
Registered: Feb 2005
Location: Hiding from zombies
Glentract, can you swing a sword as well as a knight who was practising with it since age six or eight, who fought on battlefields where men died in numbers you couldn't count amongst the chaos? There is a distinct difference in growth and atrophy and when it comes to time moving on, some things grow (Like technology) while others atrophy (The need to be a great fighter)
Still, but knew things are always learned in the Force, and so this would be like technology. I would rather kill with the force then be a great lightsaber fightier. And where is your source that people back a thousand years ago were such great sword fighters?
__________________ http://darthglentract.tripod.com/index.html Go Jawa's!!
It's true Yoda is a hard-ass; that can't be disputed. We see Yoda go toe-to-toe with Darth Sidious and Tyranus. We see him absorb and deflect the lightning Sidious uses to rock everyone else in the entire movie saga with his hands. There is no question that Yoda is awesome.
But he'll eventually succumb to Darth Revan.
- The lightsaber. Revan is fully capable of using both one and two sabers to devastating effect, but we'll consider the fact that his ability to use two lightsabers will give him the speed he needs to keep up, deflect, and counter Yoda. It's true that it's a physically weaker style of combat, but I don't imagine Yoda is very strong himself. Let's also not forget Revan's combat-based precognitive skills.
- Force knowledge? Hard to tell. Revan soaked up knowledge of both the Jedi and the Sith faster than a hobo soaks up booze. Yoda had considerably longer amounts of time to learn more and so he may have had... but apparently he doesn't know everything that other Force users do. Such as probably how to conjure lightning and the Mortichro technique.
- Force strength. Revan will win this, I'm sure. Like Anakin, Revan possesses immense potential. Unlike Skywalker, however, Revan met it and knew how to harness it.
- Ability to fight. Yoda's awesome, but Revan was made for war. There's really no need to go into this.
I think Yoda will give a hell of a fight, but I don't see why he'd win. He let himself get beat by Sidious (Sure, the fall took him out, but the deflecting of the lightning did force him backwards into it and if Sids' lightning can do that, imagine what Revan's will do.), who as we all now know, wasn't "all that" when compared.
Well here is my reason... Yoda has trained for over 800 years, has trained many jedi and learned much throughout his life, He has much more experience than revan... Yoda topple's him in every aspect of lightsaber combat and the mastery of the force... Now if you still say that revan would win when there is no way that is possible, then you are the ignorant fool for even thinking of comparing revan and yoda in a duel...
Because knowledge of a subject is entirely dependent on its ability to survive the rigors of time. For knowledge of the Force, this would involve Jedi/Sith locations, holocrons, and those few who manage to retain that knowledge. Temples have become ruins, holocrons have been destroyed and lost, and people die. For example, the Japanese art of sword-fighting, Kenjutsu is now dead and the art in its entirety is lost, like many of the martial arts of ancient Asia. Its entirely plausible, and likely, that much knowledge has been lost. Hell, look at the movies if you want a completely canonical example: the ability to retain one's consciousness after becoming one with the Force. It was forgotten until Qui-Gon Jinn rediscovered it upon his death and imparted it to Yoda and Obi-Wan Kenobi.
While that's impressive, you have to take into account the fact that someone can practice their entire life, but still will not be able to achieve the level of skill that someone else did in a shorter amount of time. Obviously, this 800 years of training wasn't enough to allow Yoda to overcome Darth Sidious.
Who cares? First of all, affinity and control over the Force have nothing to do with teaching. A Jedi that is merely capable with the Force but is incredibly skilled in teaching will out-train any Jedi that is more than capable with the Force but inadequate in teaching. Obviously, Yoda was tremendously skilled as a teacher, however, this has nothing to do with his abilities with the Force.
In what? Living? Using the Force? War? I'm half the age of my general manager where I work, yet I'm more experienced as a sword fighter than he is. Using the Force? Sure he does, but that will do little more than allow him to be more inherently creative with its use than make him more powerful, and even that can be trumped if someone else is just naturally imaginative and strategic. With war and combat? I'm afraid you're mistaken here. As far as we're aware, Yoda's main experience with combat and war are isolated duels and sparring sessions over the years and the Clone Wars. Darth Revan initiated, led, and won wars almost single-handedly while engaging in duels with various opponents of legendary skill.
No he doesn't. Yoda is awesomely skilled, but nowhere is it said that he's the best duelist of all time. If anyone has that title, it's the ancient Sith Lord Tulak Hord, whose teachings were left in a holocron that found itself in the grip of Lord Revan. Now let's put Yoda against a Force user who is just as or more powerful than Anakin had he reached his full potential (which is stated in the films to be a more powerful state than that of Yoda's) armed with two lightsabers for maximum speed, extremely experienced in combat, and whose lessons involve those of the greatest duelist in the galaxy's history. You'll still tell me Yoda will "topple" that person in every aspect?
And mastery of the Force. Let's look at a person who bent the Dark Side of the Force to his will and was capable of unlocking its power without resorting to base emotion and passion. Oh, that person looks a lot like Darth Revan.
Thanks for using name-calling as a method for argument. Now let's grow up a bit, shall we? Unfortunately for your viewpoint, it's entirely possible for Yoda to lose this fight and I would go so far as to say it's likely; especially so if we base this entirely off your own reasoning.
Now, for the flip-side, it's also entirely possible for Yoda to win this fight as well; his age and wisdom (something you neglected to mention) would be his biggest edge. To be honest, I admit I wouldn't be surprised if Yoda did win, but I think the odds are stacked against him.
May 20th, 2005 11:01 PM
http://darthglentract.tripod.com/index.html Go Jawa's!!
