Registered: Nov 2005
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ROTS Sidious was at his peak in both force abilities and saber combat. I'm not sure if ROTJ Sidious spent some of his 20 years studying ancient sith magic on Korriban, or if this was the resurrected emperor, but there is no proof that ROTJ Sidious improved his knowledge of the dark side, not to mention he didn't use a lightsaber since being tooled by Yoda.
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Facts, the Anti Fanboy solution
Registered: Mar 2005
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lol Tooled? Well. I don't think Yoda won that fight to tell you the truth. Even during the aftermath of the battle between him and Sidious, Yoda claimed "Into exile I must go. Failed I have." Now he said this right after the fight. And Sidious was fine laughing his ass off the whole time during the match. Afterwards, Sidious was on his feet while Yoda was crawling away hidden. But as far as ROTJ Sidious goes, I think he'd come out the winner, defeating ROTS Sidious. He had to have extensively practice the ways of the Sith. With especially knowing about Vader and how powerful he may've become. It would've been to great a risk to him and his Empire for him not to study only to increase his knowledge exponentially. I'm sure he visited Korriban during his reign to meditate and gain more in depth knowledge of the power of the Darkside.
__________________ "The darkside, Sidious, is an illness no true Sith wishes to be cured of, my young apprentice .."
Registered: Nov 2005
Location: Seminole Country, FL
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The fight was actually a stalemate but it's been proven and shown that Yoda had the upper hand in the lightsaber duel, and at the end of the fight you see him getting angry while Sidious has the "Oh shit i'm screwed" look. This is all in the Episode III DVD. Lucas wanted to show people that Yoda won the fight but lost due to circumstances, yet he won in the end because he lived to train Luke. Also I think you guys should read the Episode III novel, the fight in particular.
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Facts, the Anti Fanboy solution
Registered: Mar 2005
Location: United States, Earth
And don't forget 20 years more knowledgeable, 20 years of concentrated Darkside power and 20 years more experience.
And 20 years weaker? Didn't he keep clones? I even heard that ROTJ Sidious was a clone. And as for senile. I thought he was sharper, more tactical and manipulative than his ROTS self.
__________________ "The darkside, Sidious, is an illness no true Sith wishes to be cured of, my young apprentice .."
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ROTJ Sidious being a clone is speculation. It's also speculation that Sidious learned new darkside power in that 20 years. We know he didn't use a lightsaber again after Yoda, so I would still give the fight to ROTS Sidious.
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Facts, the Anti Fanboy solution
This is just like people saying "z0mg, ben trained lots when he was in exile!". Again, neither Sidious nor Ben would have any reason whatsoever to train in between RotS and ANH.
Sidious was the Emperor of the whole freaking galaxy. He had billions of StormTroopers at his disposal, the DeathStar, a bunch of StarDestroyers, attack mechanisms, and most of all Vader. Why would he train with all that security? It'd be a waste of his time.
Registered: Mar 2005
Location: United States, Earth
Sidious had every reason to be Darkside devoted during his reign. he had Vader to worry about. He had Luke and the rebellion to worry about. His expanding galaxy to worry about. Traitors in the Empire and in his inner circles to worry about. He needed to be in tune with all that and what better way that with the assistance of the Darkside of the Force to give him the visions and the power he needed to rule the Galaxy. Surely he didn't renounce his Sith heritage. If he did, he wouldn't of been strong enough to use Force Lightning as effectively as he did in ROTJ. You'd need to profoundly be apart of the Darkside like nothing else to use Force lightning.
I still say ROTJ Sidious takes it.
__________________ "The darkside, Sidious, is an illness no true Sith wishes to be cured of, my young apprentice .."
Registered: Nov 2005
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He's absolutely right, Sidious had every reason to gain more dark side knowledge. He was also fascinated and engorged by the dark side so anything new he could study, he would. However there is more evidence showing ROTS Sidious was at his peak, than ROTJ having more knowledge and the ability to defeat his younger self.
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Facts, the Anti Fanboy solution
I think ROTS Sidious wins. Lets look at it.
1. A second of ROTS Sidious's lightning knocks Yoda on the ground for around 10 seconds. About seven seconds of ROTJ Sidious's lightning got poured into Vader, a machine who's far more vulnerable to lightning than Yoda, and he kept walking, while holding Sidious over his head.
2. ROTS Sidious leaped out, killed Agen and Saesee in one second and Kit in another 5. If ROTJ Sidious were that strong Vader wouldn't have been able to get him anywhere near that reactor core shaft.
Registered: Nov 2005
Location: Seminole Country, FL
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Well like I said, ROTJ Sidious had no reason to use a lightsaber ever again, so his skills with it would suck, and of course he got weaker and older over time so his force lightning was weaker.
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Facts, the Anti Fanboy solution
ROTJ Sidious being a clone is not speculation; while Palpatine said as such in DE, a spokesperson from Lucasfilm or George himself, can't remember, intervened and said that Palpatine was merely bluffing in an attempt to make Luke realize that it is hopeless.
That's what I said. He wouldn't need to train with lightsaber combat at all. Or with the Force. His Empire was loyal to him. Luke was only a threat for a few years. Do you think studying the Dark Forces in between ESB and RotJ would get him very far? No. Do you think the Rebellion was a big enough problem that he'd need to train? No. He knew that he wouldn't make much of a difference fighting in the war because all he needed to do was command his enormous legion to do it for him.
Vader might've been a threat, but a blast of Sith Lightning and kablam. Sidious also knew that he was getting old and that his apprentice was withered away. That's why he needed Luke; so he could possibly become something that Anakin could've if he hadn't been stripped of most of his power. Even if Luke wouldn't have became everything Anakin would've became, it'd still be better than Darth Vader. Moving back on subject, Sidious had an Empire at his disposal. No single person was a threat to him, unless they were face to face.
Anyways, this fight has the major variable: Sidious did or did not train with his saber in between. But RotS Sidious would simply use the Force before any saber combat gets involved and would probably overpower his older self.
Registered: Mar 2005
Location: United States, Earth
Are you sure his empire was loyal to him? His most trusted liege, Lord Vader wanted to murder him, as Sith tradition goes. The apprentice eventually tries to murder his Master. Proof in ESB when Vader tells Luke about collaborating and destroying the Sidious and taking over the Galaxy. I even heard Sidious eavesdropped in on this conversation.
Luke was only a threat for a few years? Luke was the Ultimate threat to Emperor Palpatine and the Galactic Empire. Luke was the son of the chosen one. I'm sure Emperor Sidious knew about Luke's place in the prophesy well before Luke was born. So Luke was a threat for way more than a few years.
And Palpatine knew the rebellion was a threat. The Galactic Civil War has been going on for 20 years! Wouldn't you think someone was a problem or some sort of threat on some sort of level if after 20 yrs. you weren't able to crush them? And that's ontop of the fact the the Rebellion actually defeated the Empire.
Sidious had an Empire at his disposal yet it took a 19yr old kid defeat him and millions of Imperials. Well Vader did it but but with his son's help.
Vader was a sick threat to Palpatine. It's tradition for apprentices to go against their Masters. Palpatine had to make sure Vader wasn't up to par enough to actually attempt anything against Sidious. Therein lied the reason for Sidious' continual draining as Sith while being a galactic Emperor.
What about pre-Clone Wars Senator Palpatine? Tell me all the people he lightsabered with? Not even 10 people from what we know. The Force guides a lightsaber duelist. And 20 yrs of Darkside experience would've granted him uber Darkside abilities with sick automatic saber-skills far superior to what ROTS Palpatine wielded.
__________________ "The darkside, Sidious, is an illness no true Sith wishes to be cured of, my young apprentice .."
Registered: Nov 2005
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You're wrong, the force is only one aspect of lightsaber combat. You actually have to train and improve your technique. Sidious didn't touch a lightsaber for 20 years because he had no need to, so there is nothing to indicate that he would be a match for his younger self.
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Facts, the Anti Fanboy solution
Mar 8th, 2006 11:08 PM
