Meh, Ragnos is Sidious' superior by a fairly large margin, and Luke just isn't capable enough to stop Ragnos. I see Sidious going down fairly quickly, then Ragnos engaging Luke in a fairly succinct and furious battle, with Ragnos coming out as the victor.
Ragnos is butchered. How the hell is he even close to anything resembling the power to these two at once? Luke and Sidious's duel was felt by every force sensitive in the galaxy by their power alone, Sidious's death weakened the dark side quite a bit, Luke can slice through an army and have enough power to take down their leader.
Him being 'ancient' doesn't make him powerful. Especially when his biggest credential is...being the strongest five thousand years prior to Luke and Sidious, and ruling the Ancient Sith, an impressive feat, but not one that automatically makes him a force god.
When Ragnos can shatter the fabric of space or become a living avatar of the force, let alone describe as a divinity or whose power being felt by every force sensitive across the galaxy, or his death crippling the dark side, knowing every dark side technique ever, along with every aspect of the force, he can stand a chance.
Registered: Feb 2005
Location: Hiding from zombies
1. Who can "Shatter the fabric of space"? Is this hyperbolic nonsense? Do you understand what that actually entails?
2. Who became a "living avatar of the force"? You DO realize that the force consists of all lifeforce in the galaxy, right? How can you ever put that in one person?
3. Described as divinity? So was Ramses greater than Sparticus in personal combat because the former was described as divinity? zomG!
4. "Whose power being felt by every force sensitive across the galaxy"? This is news to me.
5. Knowing every dark side technique ever? LMAO. We already discussed this. Sidious can't condense thousands of years of Sith lore into a ten minute a day video that he watched over the course of his being a friggin' politician. Don't be daft.
6. Every aspect of the force? Is that why Sidious got tooled by 2.5 people?
1. It's in Dark Empire, and the Sourcebook, and pretty much everything else. That's what Sidious's force storms do. It's right in DE when Palp creates his force storm.
2. Quote from NJO: "He had become the force and the Force had become him." Other lines include "Pure, living avatar of the light," And Jacen? He became the forc,e the forc ebecame him. Disagree all you like, but it's written down in black and white in TUF and in Traitor
3. Yeah, because Ramses and Spartacus are being described as such in fictional settings by narrarators!
4. Yep, I've posted the passage before.
5. Except it's written down in material...so despite how impossible it is, him learning it via arcane or natural means, he knows it and it's stated directly.
6. Channeling the entire power of the light as said in DE? And we've seen Luke and Brakiss toy around with solar flares for fun and showing off to students before. When asked if he could actually make the sun explode, Brakiss grew troubled and said he hoped he'd never have to.
You can't pick and choose. It's written down, it's in the continuity. Contradicted? Nope. Some of it was recent as late 2005. If you don't believe Palpatine could've studied all that, then he just absorbed the knowledge like he did with several holocrons. Stop the semantics: DE, short stories...Palpatine took numerous, numerous trips to Korriban and numerous other worlds, took power from worlds at a time, Had Abbadon, Arkania, Ziost...We can go over it and over it again, but still...it's written down. To paraphrase: "They drew energy from the stars, from the seas of Mon Calimari, but the twisted metal of the Emperor's Throne room."
Palp also had enough time to master Sith alchemy and write 'The Creation of Monsters', as well as 'The Book of Anger'
Luke as is can slice through an army and have enough to kill their leader, who's...what...nine feet tall, pure strength and power? The best warrior the Vong have?
And here's the utter quesiton: If the armies of Ancient Sith were so godly, why did they get tooled on three planets? And I'd rather get tooled by the skywalkers than a young padawan who'd just fought through an army and Tavion.
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Last edited by Lightsnake on May 2nd, 2006 at 01:23 AM
I'm not sure. If Luke can stall Ragnos for maybe a minute or so, Palpatine would be able to get a force storm ready, aimed and projected. Can Ragnos really survive something of that magnitude?
Ackbar poses a good question, where does this fight take place?
I really doubt Ragnos could last against something that could tear ships apart.
And also, according to the ROTS novelization, Palpatine was such a master of darkness, trying to defeat him by fighting him was futile. EU-wise, he was only ever beaten by acts of sacrifice
Where does it say "any opponent"? We haven't even seen it (assuming you're referring to Emerald Lightning) work on a Force user, let alone a powerful one.
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"The ability to speak does not make you intelligent." - Sagacious Jedi Master Qui-Gon Jinn.
At the very least, Luke knows Mortichro and electric judgement, though.
Oh, from the Book of Anger:
"Using this knowledge, I can unleash the dark side energies that are all around us, even to shatter the fabric of space itself. In this way, I have created storms."
The narrarator says he shatters the fabric of space as well.
Plus, Sidious's dark side knowledge was being transcribed in the books he wrote...he wrote three books, each one taking a minimum of two weeks to read, at ninety six hours being extremely generous...and before his final death, DE's end pages stated his knowledge would have filled hundreds of volumes if he lived to write them
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Last edited by Lightsnake on May 2nd, 2006 at 01:47 AM
Well, has there been a powerful enough Force-user who can compare to Luke yet? No. Until then, Emerald Lightning and Sidious' Force Storm alone make Ragnos fodder to the both of them.
That aside, we know Luke can use electric judgement and mortichro, and Palp can use the latter and force lightning...enough to devastate a large group of people at once
Good for them. I want Kensho to answer my post regarding his claims on Emerald Lightning, if he doesn't post something to back it up -- then my assumptions were correct, and he has no clue what he's talking about. For now, I just want that answered.
__________________
"The ability to speak does not make you intelligent." - Sagacious Jedi Master Qui-Gon Jinn.
I have no proof of that. Then again, if it can work on the Force-resistant Vong, then it'll prolly work on a Force-user. I dunno whether it'll work or not, we'll just have to wait and see.
However, it seems you haven't countered my argument that Sidious > Ragnos. Then again, Ragnos didn't have a Force Storm that could destroy star fleets. So Sidious > Ragnos.
If you'll BS about Luke's inferiority, then think of this. DE Sidious > Ragnos. DN Luke > DE Sidious. So, all in all, Luke > Ragnos. FAce it, Luke's the most pwoerful Force-user the glalaxy has even seen.
May 1st, 2006 09:25 AM
