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Home » Star Wars » Star Wars: Literature & Expanded Universe » Star Wars Versus Forum » Sasee Tin vs Agen Kolar


Sasee Tin vs Agen Kolar
Started by: Lee-San28

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Lee-San28
Im A Bloddy Rock God!

Registered: Jan 2006
Location: Dharma Island


 

Sasee Tin vs Agen Kolar

close combat with ligthsabers in a small room the size of palpatenes office.


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Old Post Jan 15th, 2007 04:19 PM
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reborn_213
Scruffy Nerf Herder

Registered: Sep 2005
Location: Picking up some power converters.


 

Agen. He soundly thrashed Quinlan Vos.


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Old Post Jan 15th, 2007 04:31 PM
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-kV-
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Registered: Dec 2005
Location: Orion-Cygnus Arm


 

Excuse me? He did not soundly thrash Quinlan Vos. There was a recent thread on this where Darthsith and I argued against each other on this.

Quinlan, nor Agen, were trying against each other. However, that doesn't mean they were trying at the same level. Quinlan wanted to escape, he was not interested to go for the kill because he was still a loyalist to the Jedi Order.

Don't get me started jollyjim.

However, Agen was considered to be one of the order's strongest swordsmen and he is definately greater than Saesee, who's more of a pilot than anything.


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Old Post Jan 15th, 2007 06:01 PM
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-kV-
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Registered: Dec 2005
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Sry actually DS and I argued primarily in the Agen vs. Kit threa.d


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Old Post Jan 15th, 2007 06:05 PM
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Mic Assassin
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Sure, Quinlan wasn't exactly hoping to go out of his way to kill Agen, but by this point, he had a kind of 'get in my way and face the consequences' attitude, he wasn't completely unwilling to attack full out against Agen if he was getting in his way and forcing him to do so. By this point, he was a firm believe of the 'end justifies the means' philosophy, and viewed his goal to infiltrate Dooku's inner circle above everything else, even if it meant touching the darkside. Killing Agen would have simply been removing an obstacle that was in his way, and it was a sacrifice he was clearly willing to make.

Agen on the other hand was actually aiming to capture Quinlan (disarm or wound, not kill) and wasn't going full out one bit, yet he was quite clearly able to outclass Quinlan in all ways. I'd say Agen was definitely the superior swordsman, at least at that point anyway.

Old Post Jan 15th, 2007 06:28 PM
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darthsith19
Arm-Wrestler

Registered: May 2005
Location: United States


 

Kolar wins. He defeated Quinlan Vos, I doubt Saesee Tiin could. There's a chance but between him and Vos I'd put my money on Vos.

quote:
Quinlan, nor Agen, were trying against each other. However, that doesn't mean they were trying at the same level. Quinlan wanted to escape, he was not interested to go for the kill because he was still a loyalist to the Jedi Order.

As PoD proved, Vos had a big advantage in that fight because he kenw the territory, just as Bane had the advantage in the right in the Rakatan Temple because he knew it. Vos was trying to run - since he knew the area so well eh should have been able to escape. Kolar was merely trying to capture Vos, and he would have succeeded if those Hutt guards hadn't come in. Escaping in your turf is FAR easier than capturing someone by first disarming them in a lightsaber duel.


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Old Post Jan 15th, 2007 06:30 PM
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-kV-
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Registered: Dec 2005
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quote:
Sure, Quinlan wasn't exactly hoping to go out of his way to kill Agen, but by this point, he had a kind of 'get in my way and face the consequences' attitude, he wasn't completely unwilling to attack full out against Agen if he was getting in his way and forcing him to do so. By this point, he was a firm believe of the 'end justifies the means' philosophy, and viewed his goal to infiltrate Dooku's inner circle above everything else, even if it meant touching the darkside. Killing Agen would have simply been removing an obstacle that was in his way, and it was a sacrifice he was clearly willing to make.


In a manner, this is absolutely correct. However, in the comic, Quinlan's engagement with Kolar was for him to somehow push Agen out of the way, such as perhaps knocking him down to a platform, or such and such. Backing up this explanation is when Quinlan was trying to do a dropkick on Agen, to perhaps knock him down and then run off again. He was not going for the kill and going all out.

quote:
Agen on the other hand was actually aiming to capture Quinlan (disarm or wound, not kill) and wasn't going full out one bit, yet he was quite clearly able to outclass Quinlan in all ways. I'd say Agen was definitely the superior swordsman, at least at that point anyway


Both weren't obviously going all out. I personally was under the clear impression that Vos wasn't trying as hard as Agen, though Kolar didn't seem to trying that hard.

Anyway, I would say that beginning Light and Dark (that was the Clone Wars comic novel the fight took place, right) Quinlan is lesser than Agen Kolar. However, Revenge of the Sith Quinlan, who is purely Jedi Knight, is definitely higher than Agen.

quote:
As PoD proved, Vos had a big advantage in that fight because he kenw the territory, just as Bane had the advantage in the right in the Rakatan Temple because he knew it. Vos was trying to run - since he knew the area so well eh should have been able to escape. Kolar was merely trying to capture Vos, and he would have succeeded if those Hutt guards hadn't come in. Escaping in your turf is FAR easier than capturing someone by first disarming them in a lightsaber duel.


Tell me, how is the entirety of the back streets of Nar Shadaa all of Quinlan's turf? I would say that local pub is something that might be considered an advantage, though not much.

Vos was racing all across Nar Shadaa and was finally cornered by Agen, and taken aback. He then slashed that wall because he knew all sorts of creatures would be there, but that’s not turf advantage, it’s called slyness.

He then ran back to the pub to avoid pursuit from Kolar because of the Hutts. Now I want to say, what’s your point? Quinlan was running because he didn’t want to engage in a fight and possibly kill Agen Kolar. Kolar didn’t want to kill Vos but just merely capture him. When Vos engaged Kolar, he was trying to get Agen out of the way, which he tried first by dropkick and then storming Agen with a saber attack. However, Kolar parried this and had Vos down. This doesn’t mean in an actual fight between ROTS Quinlan and ROTS Kolar equates to Agen winning. Both were not trying. And Quinlan is a lot more powerful as a Jedi Knight than as a gangster.


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Old Post Jan 15th, 2007 07:14 PM
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darthsith19
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Registered: May 2005
Location: United States


 

quote:
Backing up this explanation is when Quinlan was trying to do a dropkick on Agen, to perhaps knock him down and then run off again. He was not going for the kill and going all out.

Same can be said for Agen, except rather than run he was going for the capture.
quote:
Both weren't obviously going all out. I personally was under the clear impression that Vos wasn't trying as hard as Agen, though Kolar didn't seem to trying that hard.

Why's that? Kolar was only going 100% in the capture, Vos was going 100% in trying to escape. I'd say both were trying equally hard.
quote:
Anyway, I would say that beginning Light and Dark (that was the Clone Wars comic novel the fight took place, right) Quinlan is lesser than Agen Kolar. However, Revenge of the Sith Quinlan, who is purely Jedi Knight, is definitely higher than Agen.

And why is that? He didn't seem to improve that much, and Kolar and Mace are desbribed as "two of the finest swordsmen in the order." in the ROTS novel.
quote:
Tell me, how is the entirety of the back streets of Nar Shadaa all of Quinlan's turf? I would say that local pub is something that might be considered an advantage, though not much.

Because that's where Quinlan hangs out. Just like Bane hangs out in the Temple, he knows the area. Agen doesn't.
quote:
Vos was racing all across Nar Shadaa and was finally cornered by Agen, and taken aback. He then slashed that wall because he knew all sorts of creatures would be there, but that’s not turf advantage, it’s called slyness.

He knew the area better, was familiar with the turf, which gives him the advantage.
quote:
He then ran back to the pub to avoid pursuit from Kolar because of the Hutts. Now I want to say, what’s your point? Quinlan was running because he didn’t want to engage in a fight and possibly kill Agen Kolar. Kolar didn’t want to kill Vos but just merely capture him. When Vos engaged Kolar, he was trying to get Agen out of the way, which he tried first by dropkick and then storming Agen with a saber attack. However, Kolar parried this and had Vos down. This doesn’t mean in an actual fight between ROTS Quinlan and ROTS Kolar equates to Agen winning. Both were not trying. And Quinlan is a lot more powerful as a Jedi Knight than as a gangster.

As you've stated many times Vos was really loyal to the Jedi all along, and thus was a Jedi Knight, no, Jedi Master when he fought Kolar. I don't know why you think Vos improved so much from then to ROTS, and Kolar disarmed Vos in a jiffy when they fought, I'm sure Vos was trying 100% not to let that happen.


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Old Post Jan 15th, 2007 08:41 PM
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-kV-
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Registered: Dec 2005
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quote:
Same can be said for Agen, except rather than run he was going for the capture.


Wonderful. Your point?

quote:
Why's that? Kolar was only going 100% in the capture, Vos was going 100% in trying to escape. I'd say both were trying equally hard.


Agen seemed to put energy into trying to get Vos down, while Quinlan was just trying to run. It's just my opinion. However, we can't say they were trying equally hard, that's just like pulling-number-out-of-our-ass.

quote:
And why is that? He didn't seem to improve that much, and Kolar and Mace are desbribed as "two of the finest swordsmen in the order." in the ROTS novel.


Vos spent a lot time out of the war and inside the shadows. Afterwards, as Dooku's apprentice he trains heavily and he leads several campaigns and all. ROTS Quinlan is beter than THE Jedi Quinlan, the same one who was able to kill Volfe Karkko and such and such.

quote:
Because that's where Quinlan hangs out. Just like Bane hangs out in the Temple, he knows the area. Agen doesn't.


Turf advantage doesn't mean shit except Agen was trying much harder to go through the landscape to get to Vos, otherwise how could he have cornered him? Obviously, Kolar was trying harder.

quote:
He knew the area better, was familiar with the turf, which gives him the advantage.


Yet Agen put more effort than Quinlan, and that's why he cornered him and beat him more easily.

quote:
As you've stated many times Vos was really loyal to the Jedi all along, and thus was a Jedi Knight, no, Jedi Master when he fought Kolar. I don't know why you think Vos improved so much from then to ROTS, and Kolar disarmed Vos in a jiffy when they fought, I'm sure Vos was trying 100% not to let that happen.


I meant that he was still a Jedi. Sorry, I knew he was a Jedi Master. Vos trained heavily under Dooku and obviously sharpened his swordwork and Force mastery, which has probably dulled when he was hiding in the shadows.


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Old Post Jan 15th, 2007 11:19 PM
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Council#13
The Omega Male

Registered: Jul 2005
Location: In your pants


 

Saesee wins this one.

Anyway, Agen did defeat Quinlan, although neither wanted to kill the other. Quinlan was more putting up as much of a fight without actually hurting Agen, and Agen was trying to arrest Quinlan without hurting him. Both of them had basically the same restraints, yet Quinlan was forced down several times.


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Old Post Jan 16th, 2007 12:45 PM
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Mic Assassin
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lol, why? I know you're a fan of Saesee, but there's honestly not anything that would put Saesee ahead of Agen.

Old Post Jan 16th, 2007 12:56 PM
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Council#13
The Omega Male

Registered: Jul 2005
Location: In your pants


 

laughing out loud You caught me, I am a Saesee fan!

Anyway, he has a lot of accomplishments under his belt. Agen isn't as well known. Like in the ROTS novelization, for example, Saesee is the first to die. He doesn't expect a blade to take of his head. Agen manages to squeeze out the words: It doesn't- *gets stabbed* hurt. *dies* I mean, he saw it all happen! And he like- whatever.


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Old Post Jan 16th, 2007 01:49 PM
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Lee-San28
Im A Bloddy Rock God!

Registered: Jan 2006
Location: Dharma Island


 

i agree Agen is more of the rash yung figther Sasee Has more experience under his belt and has been a member of the council for a long time.


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Old Post Jan 19th, 2007 12:37 AM
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BruceSkywalker
The BatLord of the Jedi

Registered: Dec 2006
Location: The Batcave


 

Probably Sin since Kolar died so easily when Sidious killed him.


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Old Post Feb 2nd, 2007 12:09 AM
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Council#13
The Omega Male

Registered: Jul 2005
Location: In your pants


 

Both died quickly, so that argument, unfortunately, doesn't count. sad


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Old Post Feb 2nd, 2007 01:55 PM
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