Uh, just for clarification, Freddon Nadd was certainly NOT the first Sith Lord. And if this is DE Sidious, he PWNs Nadd. If this is ROTS Sidious, he wins but with great difficulty.
Bullshit. DE Sidious would wipe the floor with Nadd in Force AND sabers. He was already the most powerful Sith Lord in history by ROTS, what makes you think he isn't even more powerful by DE?
Wow, I love how you provided proof for that. Oh wait...
Now please, don't be ridiculous, Nadd as a 400 year old spirit which he described as powerless in comparison to his true form was capable of force pushing Vodo, a very powerful force user, to the ground while lightyears away from him. Sidious definitely won't be owning anyone that powerful.
Again, loving the proof...
Too bad for you that the TotJ Companion gives Nadd a figure of 12d in saber combat, and the DE Sourcebook gives Sidious only 13d, so hardly that great a difference like you're trying to make out. Not to mention the fact that Nadd's 'Dark Armour' is highly resistant to a saber anyways. Point is, Sidious isn't going to be owning Nadd in any way, bottom line.
Not that I was even saying that, let's put things into perspective: Sidious, by RotS was already in his 60s, had a genius intellect and thus likely an incredible learning rate as well as a huge and great knowledge base to work from, so it's very likely that he'd already reached his potential by this point, especially when taking into consideration that the darkside is a quick and easy path to power. DE Sidious only displays greater knowledge (which Nadd mostly shares in common btw) than his PT incarnation, not greater power, so it's up to you to prove that he grew any more powerful.
Quote? So your comparing to Nadd pushing an old, feeble Jedi Master who was nowhere near Palpatine's level, to the most powerful Sith Lord in History, who can control Force Storms to destroy entire fleets or just simply use on to transport a person across the galaxy? Don't make me laugh, you twit.
Still enough to kick Nadd's ass. Sidious was described as 'faster than the eye could see' aswell as a 'master swordsmen', and where does it mention Nadd's 'Dark Armour' is resistent to lightsabers? Quote and/or page number, please. The bottom line is, Sidious is the most powerful Sith Lord in History and will OWN Nadd, considering Nadd got OWNed by an unexperienced n00b Sith who wasn't even on Palpatine's level at the time. And don't use the 'ZoMG! He w4s U$lng teh uber aMUleT!!111!" excuse. If he was half as powerful as DE Sidious(Who knows just about every darkside power known and the ways to block them, including amulets. Source: DE Sourcebook and NEC) you claimed, he couldve blocked that amulet blast like nothing. You fail.
Bullshit. Where does it say Nadd knows every darkside power and how to defend against them? Where does it say Nadd knows how to summon and control Force Storms into either destroying entire fleets or just transporting a person across the galaxy? Where does it say Nadd moved 'faster than the eye could see' or was described as a 'Master swordsmen' and 'the most powerful Sith Lord in history'? Where does it say Nadd was an expert in Sith Alchemy? All of which, fit DE Sidious correctly(Aagain, according to the DE Scourcebook and NEC). No, the bottom line is DE Sidious would hand Nadd's ass to him. All of the proof leads to this. Accept it.
If you want more information on how DE Sidious would PWN Nadd, go to Ligthsnake, he's the resident Palpatine expert.
Last edited by D-FENS on Jun 20th, 2007 at 10:23 PM
Registered: May 2005
Location: .::The Anti-Fanboy Confederation::.
Of course you're most likely right here but I spot a little mistake in that argument: Nadd never was a Sith Lord, hence that statement of Sidious being the most powerful Sith Lord ever alone doesn't mean he's more powerful than Nadd.
__________________
"Dear God, what is it like in your funny little brains?"
True, however, Sidious is more powerful than Naga Sadow(Dan Wallace stated this when he was here a year back, BTW), who was more powerful than Nadd(Which was one of the reasons on why he never became a Sith Lord and left Sadow's tutelage in the first place) which futher solidifies my argument, but yeah, I see your point.
Dark Jedi, sith lord, really, the authors destroyed both concepts by getting them confused. I fail to see how Nadd wasn't a sith lord, since he studied under an ancient sith and whose expertise lie in sith magic..
Registered: May 2005
Location: .::The Anti-Fanboy Confederation::.
Erm. Technically for all we know it was Nadd who did finally kill Sadow. So I don't know where you get the idea from that Sadow is more powerful than Nadd. Actually it seems to be the other way around. Unless I did miss something regarding that topic.
Pretty much, yes. Nadd wasn't a Sith Lord because he didn't belong to the "Sith". The sources also mention him as "Dark Jedi". That might be nitpicking of course but technically the first "real" Sith Lord after Naga Sadow would be Exar Kun.
__________________
"Dear God, what is it like in your funny little brains?"
Wow, way to twist the focus of my argument, which was that he did it:
a) as a 400 year old spirit, which he described himself as powerless in comparison to his true form.
b) While lightyears away from Vodo.
Too bad Nadd is confirmed in the TotJ Companion to be able to do exactly the same thing you moron.
You consider a difference of 1d that great? Wow, clearly you're still as dumb as you were when owning you was a constant thing for me.
Yay for feat wars!! Now what you need to understand is that we know jack about exactly how Nadd fought with a lightsaber, for all we know he could move at similar speeds, for all we know he could move at speeds greater, point is binging up feats with which a comparison cannot be drawn and then saying that said feat puts him above Nadd is 100% arguing feat wars. What we do know however is that the two D6 system RPG Sourcebooks that deal with each character and the specific incarnations that we're dealing with put them extremely close in their ability with a saber. You've yet to properly reply to that, all you've said is 'Still enough to kick Nadd's ass.' which is bullsh1t.
Wow, what an exclusive title.
The 'Dark Armour' section is under page 60 of the darkside sourcebook, and gains two sources of protection against lightsabers.
1. 'Almost all of them are alchemically
treated during their construction to achieve certain
effects desired by the wearer, from additional protection
against blasters and lightsabers to extra resistance
against certain forms of attack.'
2. Under the stats for the armour is listed the special quality of cortosis weave - 'Cortosis weave - Deactivates any lightsaber that damages the wearer.'
So not only is the armour highly resistant to a saber, but it also can temporarily deactivate one.
That was his spirit you dumbass, what don't you get about Nadd's spirit being exponentially weaker than his true form. Advent's right, you truly are the epitome of idiocy Sparten. BTW, just so you know, his spirit was destroyed by a sith amulet, which clearly had some sort of special attack that naturally destroys sith spirits seeing as all Kun seemingly did was punch through Nadd, so trying to argue against Kun's power in this case is arguing against something that is irrelevant, not that you're right anyways, as Exar was already capable of tearing through walls and giant sith alchemical monsters with his amulet, the same amulets that multiplied Kun's rage a hundred thousand times which in turn fuels the power of the amulet by the same rate.
Again, that was Nadd's spirit, which was exponentially weaker than Nadd in his prime.
By the way, I've read both those sources you just mentioned and they're telling me you're full of sh1t. They never say that about Sidious, please don't lie mysterious jackass.
Nowhere. Your point? It says no such thing for Sidious either, you're talking bs.
LMAO!! It's said in the TotJ Companion that Nadd knows every single power in the book, which includes your precious force storms. Know what you're talking about, fool.
Again, feats wars, and a status reserved for nearly any Tom Dick and Harry in the SW universe.
Wow, clearly someone needs to learn how to read, because I never denied such a thing, I'm just arguing against your 'Sidous will curbstomp Nadd' bullsh1t.
In both the TotJ and tDS Sourcebooks, not that sith alchemy has any relation on the debate in question (a personal combat scenario), you're quite the fan of feat wars I see.
Except you're either lying or heavily misinformed.
No it doesn't, the proof leads to there being an extremely close battle between the two of them.
Lightsnake's not here, b1tch. BTW, I'm loving how you think you're among Gideon and Advent as the best debaters here, lol. You're not even close, go back to b1tching about SuperShadow, debating isn't quite your thing.
That's speculation, at best. For all we know, Naga was killed by that giant beast thing he created. But yeah, just speculation. I don't think Nadd would have left his kingdom anyway, he has it too good.
True. I was always led to believe Dark Jedi were just fallen Jedi with no knowledge of the Darkside(Or in Freedon's case, some, but not enough to defeat a hardened Sith like Naga Sadow in combat) and nowhere near Sith Lord level anyway.
I was originally asking where you got the quote that nadd's spirit was 'powerless', but you just answered it.
Bullshit, I didn't twist anything.
He's a fallible source. For all we know, he couldve been lying, which is what Dark Jedi and Sith Lords do best.
And Sidious teleported Skywalker from lightyears away to a ship a few parsecs from Byss. Point?
Where's the direct quote or page to it then, *******? So far, Palpatine's been the only one who can create and control Force Storms. DE Sourcebook confirms that. Nice try at lying.
Of kicking Nadd's ass? Yeah, I do. And since when did you own me, N00baris? As I recall, I was the one handing you ass back to you, you little shit.
And for all we know, he couldve sucked. You're making excuses and assumptions to try to help your already ailing argument. You're the one who's full of bullshit here, kiddo. Isn't it alittle past your bed time, N00baris?
It is when you don't have nothing but unsupported assumptions and speculation for an argument, which is exactly what you have, asswipe.
and where does it say Nadd wore Dark Armour? Or are you making this up and 'assuming' he had it?
And that doesn't mean it can protect Nadd against a small Force Storm or lightning attack. Hell you don't even have any proof Nadd wore any 'Dark Armour' besides you 'speculation' and 'assumptions' that he somehow owned one.
And where does it say Nadd was anymore powerful? He was a failed Dark Jedi, the most he knew was probably only very little compared to what Sidious knew. And even so, Nadd was weaker than Naga Sadow(Which is why he left him in the first place.), who is weaker than Sidious(As confirmed by Dan Wallace, an OFFICIAL source)
And where did Advent say I'm idiot, besides in your feeble little imaginary world? I don't think she would take kindly to you lying about what she says, little retard.
That's good, but even so, Nadd would still be weaker compared to Sidious, considing he never even finished his training and probably doesn't know a quarter of what Sidious knows.
Again, more bullshit by the underage sock. Ive read both of those sources aswell, and they have those exact quotes in them. You've already lied once now, this is the second time. You're not worth my time if you're going to lie to try and make your argument seem intelligent, when in fact, it's as dumb as your Ancient Sith fanboy self.
LMAO! You're a ****ing liar. So far only DE Sidious is the only one who knows how to use and control Force Storms. NO OTHER BOOK OR SOURCE MENTIONS FORCE STORMS BESIDES THE NEC. Again, you lie. You're a pthetic little piece of shit, N00baris. Always have, always will be.
Again, more bullshit and avoiding the argument, courtesy of your stupid neigborly forum sock N00baris.
Yeah, and I'm gving you direct quotes from official sources(Not your imaginary littlw world where you pull your bullshit out of your ass, which is what you've been doing this whole time) on how DE Sidious would curbstomp Nadd. All the OFFICIAL quotes prove this. Stop lying.
Bullshit. They both mention NAGA SADOW, PALPTINE and EXAR KUN being the experts on Sith Alchemy, nowhere does it mention Nadd knowing any. You're lying again. It seems the only way you think you can try to win an argument is by lying or making shit up, which is exactly what you're trying to do here.
Considering you've been lying and pulling bullshit out of your ass to try to win, it is YOU who is heavily lying to try to make your argument seem feesable.
Yes, it does. Nadd doesn't know a quarter of the shit Sidious knows, otherwise he wouldve been able to conquer the galaxy unchallenged. Hell, Nadd couldnt even hope to defeat his own master(Who is confirmed as weaker than Sidious) which is why he left and only managed to conquer a planet full of unintelligent primitives. Other than that, he's no more important than Jar Jar Binks.
No shit, sherlock. You really are a fvcking lying dumbass, N00baris. Go back to the sandbox and play with your Ancient Sith fanboy bullshit, you tard.
And yeah, I am one of the best debators here. You want to know why? Because I don't lie and pull shit out of my ass to try and make my argument logical, which is exactly what you've been doing this whole time. And it seems debating isn't quite your thing, otherwise you wouldn't have to lie to try and win. Go back to the sandbox and play with your Ancient Sith fanboy bullshit, you tard.
Yes you did, I made a perfectly clear point in regards to what Nadd was able to do as a spirit from a distance, and you completely twisted what I was saying by pushing the focus away from that onto simply pushing over an old jedi master as you put it.
Except he had no reason to lie (why the hell would he have a reason to lie to Arca Jeth about such a thing?), and what he says fits into accordance with everything we know about force spirits (for example Obi-Wan who eventually got so weak that he could no longer even talk to Luke, or Exar Kun who required draining energy from different lifeforms to be anywhere near as powerful as he was in his true form).
I honestly don't see why I'm wasting my time with you, but whatever, under Nadd's profile on page 70 it's stated that "Freedon Nadd has knowledge of all Jedi and Sith Force Powers presented herein as well as those abilities still hidden in ancient Holocrons and Tomes."
Those powers include the power of creating force storms, which is under the Jedi Powers section on page 62.
Well you're dumb then, taking an average score of 4 (rounded up) on a D6 dice, it gives him a whole four extra points, virtually nothing in the grand scheme of things and an advantage that's pretty much nullified by the damage reduction stats of the dark armour.
Point is, we don't know, and no comparison can be drawn, ergo feat wars is useless you dumb sh1t.
Well maybe you need to get Sidious' d1ck out of your mouth and open up your eyes, as anybody can see that my arguments here are far from unsupported or speculative, and that I'm owning the hell out of you.
It's listed under his personal equipment.
Is this argument too much for you or something? Seriously man, keep up, we're talking saber combat here, don't fall asleep on me big guy.
Firstly, it's listed under his personal equipment that he would usually have on him.
Secondly, in virtually any picture we have of Nadd, he's wearing some armour; clearly the dark armour.
Thirdly, it's stated that 'Dark armor is never simply found; those who wear it almost always take it with them to the grave.'
Already dealt with above, everything we know about spirits as well as Nadd's trustworthy admission say it.
What rubbish is this? How was he a failed dark jedi? He finished his studies of sith magic under sadow, and then likely killed him. You're talking out of your ass.
More like he knew every single power in the TotJ Companion, which is virtually every known power [to us] including force blocking (most devastating lightside technique), force storms (most devastating technique, period) and force drain (greatest of all sith techniques) as well as a bunch of unknown knowledge from ancient Holocrons and Tomes, as well as Sadow's private teachings and teaching from the legendary Holocron of Adas.
Again, know what you're talking about, Nadd only left once he had learnt everything from Sadow, and he likely even killed him (The NEC even outright states that he did).
Appeal to authority, logical fallacy. Dan quite clearly stated that it was just his opinion.
How about providing a quote and page number then? Now we both know that you won't, because you can't, so let's be serious now big guy.
Yeah, I can get Nai or Advent to confirm what I've been saying, so you calling me a liar will only make you look worse in the end.
I didn't ignore the arguments, I labelled them as exactly what they are, and you're looking way too into them.
Wow, what a moron, adding terrible reading comprehension to your list of flaws Spartan, as all those sources (not that all of them are even valid) actually prove is that Sidious > Nadd, however there's never any indication given to what degree he is > Nadd, so as usual, you're wrong.
Except you're clearly the only person lying here Spartan, as it does mention thats Nadd is an expert as well. think Spartan, I had no need to lie, seeing as what you brought up was entirely irrelevant, so why would I lie when it's not even needed? And even if it didn't, so what? We (well everyone apart from you) know that he learned everything he could from Sadow, and that her was able to teach his descendants much about sith magic, including sith alchemy.
Funny thing is I can say the same about you. The difference is I can back up my 'lies' with quotes and page numbers (which people will be able to confirm), you can't.
WTF? Not even Sidious could do that with his powers, which was why he had to rely on his intelligence and guile.
Except you have no support for such a claim, and evidence points in the opposite direction.
'only'? Right, because just anybody can singlehandedly conquer an entire planet through sheer militancy.
I don't give a fvck about his importance to the storyline, this is his power we're talking about, keep up.
Last edited by Reality Cell on Jun 21st, 2007 at 12:58 AM
That's nice. You, on the other hand, are a middle aged loser thats getting his ass owned by a teenager on an internet forum. I know who I'd rather be...
LOL, so as long as you don't lie you qualify as one of the best debaters on this forum? Ahahhaha, I guess Darth Sith and Count Makashi already have you beat then.
You already used that one lamo, now I know you're not very creative with your insults but at least recycle the ones that aren't so lame, yeah?
Fixed, with some real inteligence added in. You are a shithead, N00baris. You can't even debate correctly without lying to try and somehow win and intelligent debate.
It's funny how you have resorted to just insulting me instead of trying, albeit pathetically, to refute my INTELLIGENT points. Then again, I give way to much credit for an immature, unintelligent and moronic 3-year old such as yourself. Go back to sucking on Nadd's dick you stupid little fanboy.
Last edited by D-FENS on Jun 21st, 2007 at 01:14 AM
Wow, what a wonderful rebuttal, miss quoting 3 of my points, bravo big man.
"Funny thing is I can say the same about you. The difference is I can back up my 'lies' with quotes and page numbers (which people will be able to confirm), you can't."
and It's funny how you resorted to whining like a b1tch, misquoting me, ignoring my points and trying to conceal your inability to continue this with some first grade level insults.
The funniest part about this, however, is that you're the person who started the insulting, you're the person who insulted more, and at least my insults would happen after owning one of your points with logic, whereas you would straight out stop debating and jump straight to the insults.
Face it dude, you just got served royal. Anyone with half a brain can see that, just as they can see through you pathetic excuses.
I'm a three year old huh? That's great, and you're the middle aged man that just got his ass handed to him by said 3 year old. Well done big guy, give yourself a pat on the back.
Jun 20th, 2007 09:15 PM
