The Galactic Empire vs. The Covenant and Yuuzhan Vong
Hey everybody thought I would make my first post on this forum in here. Mainly since I had just had a discussion with a friend who feels that if the Covenant and Vong combined forces they would take out the Empire. In his scenario Overlord Shimmra is the leader of the new covenant and the prophets have become his advisers. I am inclined to agree, however i am not very well versed in my knowledge of the Empire, so hopefully this discussion will be a learning experience for me. Oh, almost forgot this is the Empire as of ROTJ.
The Empire as of RotJ was the Empire at its peak. 25,000 Imperator-class Star Destroyers and countless support craft, two Executor-class Star Destroyers, most of the galaxy under Palpatine's fist, an incomplete yet operational Death Star, and of course Palpatine himself.
The Covenant is a non-factor. As numerous as they are, their plasma based technology doesn't yield a power outage great enough to combat the outage of Star Wars technology. E.g.: The Clone Wars era Acclamator-class troop transport's main batteries had energy output in the millions of gigawatts. Remember, that's a troop transport, not a capital ship, and it's 20 odd years behind the highly advanced Imperial technology. The Covenant technology, while superior, could still be damaged and destroyed by Earth technology which strangely still focused on projectile weaponry even in the 26th century. The damage and penetration of their shielding and armor by physical projectiles is testament to the gargantuan disadvantage the Covenant faces in the wake of near-pure energy beams.
And no one bother bringing up any possible ground advantage the Covenant has (it does have them, the AT-ATs, despite their reputation as being elite assault units lack energy shielding so it is possible the plasma of the more maneuverable Wraith could burn through the metal armor). The Imperial fleet, faced with a possible defeat on the surface will resort to executing a Base Delta Zero operation, that is to say, the orbital bombardment of ground units from space. The Covenant does not have the capacity to resist it either.
That illegal topic covered, the Vong were hesitant to attack a divided and severely weakened Imperial Remnant circa 17 years following Endor (I may be wrong, but that date is close). Needless to say, a full operational and organized Empire under Palpatine's command will defeat the Vong.
__________________ Recently Produced and Distributed Young but High-Ranking Political Figure of Royal Ancestry within the Modern American Town Affectionately Referred To as Bel-Air.
Actually according to Frank O'Connor former Bungie PR Head, there may be something more to The Covenant's weaponry, that the actual technology is not plasma as we know it, but something far more dangerous, arcane, and destructive.
The Covenant don't even know how use their own technology to its full potential. In Halo First Strike, Cortana notes that the Covenant is "imitative not innovated." If humanity had proper time and access to Covenant technology Cortana thought they could out think the Covenant and stood a chance to win the war against the Covenant. And I'm talking about a straight up war with no CCW or Flood activity that we see in Halo 2 and 3.
Then another problem is the mistrust inside the Covenant itself such as the fact that the Elites don't trust the brutes so any ship captained by a brute is stripped of many vital systems.
I would be careful to cite the internal weaknesses of the various factions as a detriment; remember, if Palpatine is somehow assassinated during this battle, the Empire would collapse instantly into warlordism. That is how fragile their affairs are. Fortunately for them, they fear the old bastard far too much to openly defy him.
The Empire wins due to vastly superior militaristic, naval, productional, and numerical advantages. However, I'd say that with the exception of higher-end Imperial infantry and their support vehicles, the Covenant and Vong would dominate ground engagements.
By the way, Lucien, the Empire held "dozens" of Super Star Destroyers if Han's comment about "command ships" in RotJ is to be taken as fact.
What about Darth Vader? I was always curious as what would have happened if Palpatine somehow how bit the dust and Vader was still alive.
The Covenant situation is more tense imo. There are two separate species rivalries in the Covenant. Grunts and Jackals, + Elites and Brutes, then you have the phrophets role in that rivalry.
btw we can you post the stuff from that new sw encyclopedia?
What 'stuff'? You have to be slightly more specific.
As far as Darth Vader is concerned, he was universally loathed by most of the upper echelons of the Empire's service. Unlike Palpatine, who spent decades cultivating a cult of personality around him. The Empire literally could not last without Palpatine as the Emperor; he specifically designed the system so that any attempt to kill him would ultimately meet with failure. You saw what happened when Carnor Jax tampered with the Emperor's genetic material that ruined his clone supply; Jax was left with a pitifully small fragment of the Empire and was killed by a Palpatine-loyalist.
Without Palpatine, the Empire fragments. There is literally no one who could stop it.
Although the Vong by themselves would lose to the Empire I do not see it being a one sided conflict. Remember that although not as powerful as the Empire, the Chiss Defense Force had a surprisingly difficult time dealing with a small advance force of the Vong. So if you were to factor in the Covenant to this encounter I could very easily see the tide turning. Actually you would also need to factor in Onimi who could have possibly infiltrated the Empire and possibly killed Palpatine. Now I very well could be wrong but I do not see this being a walk in the park for either side.
Nom Anor knew for a fact that a united Empire would have "crushed [the Vong] utterly within the first encounter." Comparing the Chiss to the Empire might as well be comparing an anthill to a skyscraper.
Well Onimi is a force sensitive shape shifter and correct me if I'm wrong but he is quite a bit more powerful than Shimmra is he not? And where did Anor say that? This is the first I have heard of that quote.
The quote is in "Traitor" when Anor is talking to Lah.
Edit, here it is:
"Jacen Solo is also the eldest son of the galaxy's leading clan. His mother was, for a time, the New Republic's Supreme Overlord..."
"For a time? How is this possible? Why would her successor let her live?"
"Does the warmaster truly wish a disquisition upon the New Republic's perverse system of government? It has to do with a bizarre concept called democracy, in which ruling power is given to whoever is most skillful at directing the herd instincts of the largest masses of their most ignorant citizens..."
"Their politics are your concern," Tsavong Lah growled. "Their fighting strength is mine."
"The two are, in this case, more closely related than the warmaster might suspect. For a quarter of a standard century, the Solo family has dominated galactic affairs of all kinds. Even the warmaster of the Jedi is none other than Jacen Solo's uncle. This uncle, Luke Skywalker, is popularly considered to have singlehandedly created the New Republic by defeating an older, much more rational government called the Empire. And, I might add, it is fortunate for us that he did; the Empire was vastly more organized, powerful, and potently militaristic. Lacking the internal divisions we have exploited so successfully in the New Republic, the Empire could have crushed our people utterly in their first encounter."
Tsavong Lah bristled. "The True Gods would never have allowed such a defeat!"
"Precisely my point," Nom Anor countered. "They didn't. Instead, Luke Skywalker, the Solos, and the Rebel Alliance destroyed the Empire, leaving the galaxy in a state of disarray, a power vacuum that we could exploit--for even then, the Solo clan served the True Gods without ever knowing it!"
For the first time, Tsavong Lah began to look interested.
"Now, imagine," Nom Anor said, scenting blood, "the effect on the morale of the remaining New Republic forces when this Jedi, this hero, this scion of the greatest clan of their entire civilization, announces to all his people that they have been deceived by their leaders: that the True Gods are the only gods... that the True Way is the only way!"
@Gideon I was wondering what the Encyclopedia says about Plaugeis other then he was "one of the most powerful sith in history" as you mentioned before.
Last edited by Elite Hunter on Jan 12th, 2009 at 12:33 AM
Onimi would be more than annihilated Gideon - he would be the apitizer before the main course for Sidious/Palpatine. The ultimate Sith Lord vs The Covenant and YV? It wouldn't even be a serious fight. The Empire at it's height with both Sidious and Vader at the helm would overrun the invading forces in a matter of weeks.
Onimi and Shimrra even fighting side-by-side would be no match for Sidious. One blast of FL and both are pieces of toast - quite litterally. The Galactic Navy and Army would stop them and The Covenant and YV wouldn't advance.
__________________ "Great men are forged in fire. It is the privilege of lesser men to light the flame . . . whatever the cost"
Too arbitrary for my liking. Is there a statement somewhere in that new Star Wars Bible of yours about the amount of Executors circa RotJ?
__________________ Recently Produced and Distributed Young but High-Ranking Political Figure of Royal Ancestry within the Modern American Town Affectionately Referred To as Bel-Air.
Jan 11th, 2009 06:13 AM
