Anakin somehow finds himself face to face with his dark counterpart before the suit. In the Chancellor's office, but no Sids present. No nexus-based power increases. Who wins in the ultimate all-out showdown between Anakin and his unmarred dark half?
Registered: Oct 2012
Location: On my Flagship, The Eclipse
Since pre-suit vader is an emotional wreck and Anakin can relax during fights, I would say that pre-suit vader accidently leaps out of the window (assuming the hole is still in the window)
__________________ What is it that you fear to face? Or even worse: fear to remember...
I think this ultimately comes (again) to the question: what do we mean by stating "RotS Anakin", because the only time we see Jedi Anakin fight in RotS is when he is in teh Zon3...
If RotS ANakin = Zone Anakin, then RotS Anakin wins this duel handily.
Nice thread BTW!
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Any evidence that Anakin had less control and focus during fight with Kenobi?
Anakin got enraged and was recklessly attaking Dooku, his entire focus was on him. Same way he recklessly attacked Kenobi, his entire focus was on him to the point that he didn't care about anything else.
You judged Yoda vs Dooku by what you see in film and I agreed with you on that. So lets judge it by what we see in film and this time. Lets compare fights of Anakin with Dooku and Kenobi.
He kicked Dooku ones. He, also, kicked Kenobi and strength of it was enough for Kenobi to generate a backflip. Moreover, he kicked Kenobi second time and Kenobi was completly knocked off feet and dropped lightsaber.
Anakin couldn't overwhelm Dooku in pure sabers but defeated him with a grappling technique. Anakin tried grappling Kenobi as well but unlike Dooku Kenobi is good in unarmed combat and managed to escape it.
Overally, Anakin tried on Kenobi everything he tried on Dooku but Kenobi proved to be harder to defeat.
Also, Dooku stalemated Anakin in saber lock. Kenobi in CW demonstrated that his strength is firmly above Dooku. Yet, Anakin was overpowering Kenobi and nearly pushed his one lightsaber into his face.
Finally, Anakin vs Kenobi fight had much higher speed and technical level comparing to Anakin vs Dooku and Windu vs Sidious and pretty much all other movie fights. There is absolutely nothing to suggest that Anakin's performance was decreased. On the other hand it looks like he performed better than ever and lost only because of his recklessness.
Are you talking about force enhanced strength? If you are then don't forget Dooku's Uber kick which sent ROTS Anakin flying across the room landing on his rear.
I don't remember Obi-Wan landing a kick on Anakin (or anyone) which was that powerful.
Ehm... Actually legs are more than strong enough to knock off feat even without Force enchancing. And Anakin's posture was completely unbalanced to withstand even a weak kick.
My opinion was based on feats with Opress. Dooku on first encounter with Opress got nocked off feet and dropped lightsaber. Kenobi before getting disarmed blocked three attacks without doing a single step backward. And later even combined strength of Opress and Maul wasn't enough to overpower Kenobi in saber lock.
As for Kenobi's kicks I believe that it requires hell lot of strength to break leg of someone like Opress. And in RotS Kenobi kicked Anakin right into face knocking him down, I don't think anyone else apart from Anakin would still be combat effective after such concussion.
But yes, it seems that Dooku can muster a lot of strength as well as he demonstrated on Anakin. Perhaps because Kenobi trained with Anakin, he had much more experience than Dooku in countering very strong attacks.
I'm not sure that's quite fair. Dooku's first fight with Opress was in their sparring match where he totally embarrassed him. Yes that was before his training from Dooku, but he still had all that physical strength and likely some force enhanced strength.
Whilst the time he got knocked down he was spending a lot of energy dodging both him and Ventress.
Also don't forget how he deflected all of Skywalker's Power Strikes in "Crisis on Naboo."
True his kicks against Opress were impressive. But I was more impressed with the way he used them. Kicking the knee is a martial artist's way of weakening your opponent.
So it's hard to quantify how impressive it is to hurt Opress's knee. Clearly it takes strength because Adi Gallia couldn't do it. But it's not like Obi-Wan did it with one kick either.
Registered: Oct 2012
Location: On my Flagship, The Eclipse
Yes, the emotional wreck vs Anakin in pure clarity of mind. I can't see Pre-suit vader take Anakin with pure clarity of mind, since he single-handedly beat dooku with pure clarity of mind.
__________________ What is it that you fear to face? Or even worse: fear to remember...
I'm not sure that's quite fair. Dooku's first fight with Opress was in their sparring match where he totally embarrassed him.
If you re-watch that sparring, you will see that Dooku deflects his attacks sideways relying on his grace instead of strength.
Not at all.
When they both attacked, Dooku exchanged a few parries with Ventress, dodged Opress twice and kicked her twice. It all happened in 16 seconds. Then, while she was recovering from second kick, he fully focused on Opress. He dodged 6-7 attacks and and on first block was knocked off feet. If you think that Dooku got tired in 16 seconds prior to that, then you seriously underestimate his Force reserves.
And he continued fighting Ventress after and spamming lightning on Opress, it doesn't look that he was tired at all. Moreover, after Opress choked them both Dooku and Ventress continued fighting, Dooku was driving her back then utterly Force stomped her by Force pinning her to a wall, pulling lightsabers out of her hands like Yoda and electrocuting her. So Opress legitimately overwhelmed him with strength.
Yet, Anakin was nowhere as strong as Opress, he acquired similar strength only after getting suit. That was the idea that noone was as strong as Opress, not Anakin, not Kenobi, not Sidious.
Point is Dooku was most probably taken by surprise when he got knocked down by Opress's strength. End of the day Ventress has parried a full on blow from Opress and Dooku has shown he's easily at least as strong as her. Obi-Wan was also disarmed by Opress in a few blows in the episode "Revenge" but then in "Revival" he parried many many blows of Opress, sometimes one handed.
So clearly you have to be ready to take on Opress's full blows.
Edit- And let's not forget that Dooku has parried the combined power of Obi-Wan and Anakin one handed!
Well according to the script Dooku was getting tired in ROTS when he was fighting Obi-Wan and Anakin. And he hardly fights them both for 20 seconds.
So clearly fighting off 2 powerful opponents like that can be draining.
But as we know from the ROTS novel, Dooku does get tired but can then revitalize himself with the Force.
So we can assume he probably revitalized himself a few times during the Opress/Ventress fight as well.
Your just talking about Physical Strength. I'm talking about Physical plus Force Enhanced Strength. I'm not sure Opress or Vader were stronger than an Enraged Anakin. And don't forget about Anakin's Cyborg arm that can crush droids like paper.
Last edited by Darth Thor on Nov 5th, 2012 at 11:37 AM
Nov 2nd, 2012 12:55 AM
