Bane has his orbalisks but before he starts getting old in the third book.
Revan is at the height of his power, can use dark or light, and has a purple lightsaber. (For the hell of it.)
Registered: May 2010
Location: No clue. Looks.... Blue?
So RoT Bane? Or does he get his DoE feats AND orbalisks?
If he gets those Orbalisks and his DoE feats, he performs an utterly unholy stomp. I don't think anybody in the entire mythos could take him on in sabers at that point.
If it is RoT Bane, then he is not nearly as powerful due to his less refined connection to the Dark Side. However, in sabers I believe Bane will take it, due to his mastery of all the forms of lightsaber combat (including a teaching knowledge of a double bladed, and fighting knowledge of two sabers)
Keep in mind that with Orbalisks, Bane took on the best swordsman in the entire Jedi Order while the Jedi were empowered by battle meditation of a Master. This one made Johun Othone useful. He was also under attack by another Master, I believe (It was Raskta Lsu, Farfalla, and Othone, yes?) The 2 masters were both veterans of the Sith war, and could pwn Sith fairly easily.
As for Force, Revan may have him outclassed simply due to it being a RoT. He doesn't have the sheer unstoppability that he does in DoE.
Keep in mind that Darth Revan impressed Bane. He will be a good fight for POD Bane at least; possibly capable of handling this incarnation of Bane.
But Bane learned more later on, and arguably surpassed Darth Revan in power and skill.
However, Jedi Master Revan is stupendously powerful by all accounts. His performance in Star Forge and Darth Nyriss, cements his position as among the most powerful individuals in the whole mythos.
So it is necessary to pick an incarnation of Revan here.
Last edited by S_W_LeGenD on Jan 1st, 2013 at 10:13 AM
Who cares? He can't win with his mediocre saber feats and lack of offensive Force powers. Bane wins 9/10 with the 1 time Revan wins being when he reflects Banes own lightning at him and Bane can't block it in time for some reason.
Bro, feats wise, Revan isn't as nicely explored as Bane has been. Drew is to blame here. However, Revan's combat performance is above that of Bane's, as much as you protest against this point.
I find the claim of 'mediocre saber feats' and lack of 'offensive Force powers' questionable; Jedi Master Revan outgunned a formidable duelist in few steps, destroyed Darth Nyriss in a single attempt and put Vitiate on his @ss twice. If this isn't display of incredible power and skill, then I don't know what else to say. And his performance in Star Forge is also incredible.
Performance in combat situations is the right medium to judge a character.
Show me a single example of Bane, outgunning a formidable opponent in the manner as Revan did. Right, you can't.
Last edited by S_W_LeGenD on Jan 1st, 2013 at 10:27 AM
Bane could be the most dangerous lightsaber user of all time, when you take int account rain feat and orbalisks, so I think it would take somebody like Nihilus, Vitiate, DE Sidious or somebody like that to overpower him with the Force before he closes distance. Revan is good (like Bane he was suspected to eb Sith;ari, was one of the Ones on Mortis) but he is not Force God level and he would not be able to handle Bane's speed or orbalisks.
Bro, it has been canonically established that Revan's command of the Force surpasses that of any individual whom Meetra Surik has met and it takes Vitiate or equivalent to push Revan to his limits.
Why do you think that Revan's other duels aren't so lengthy in the novel? Because Drew intends to convey the message that nothing pushes Revan to his limits apart from those who plan to shit on the whole Galaxy.
It isn't my fault if TOR era ELITES are so ridiculously overpowered/strong. We have to adjust with this new canonical promotion.
Bane is a formidable Sith Lord by all accounts but he has realistic limitations and weaknesses too. (This will be apparent to those who have scrutinized his performances properly)
I admit that I am not sure that who will win in a saber contest but Jedi Master Revan outguns him over-all.
Summary:
Sabers: Inconclusive
Force: Revan
All out: Revan 80/20 (Bane's chances are only with the saber)
This is as generous as I can get after being fully neutral about this duel.
Last edited by S_W_LeGenD on Jan 1st, 2013 at 12:24 PM
Considering that feats are how we determine combat performance thats a pretty contradictory thing you just said. Bane is handily superior to Revan in lightsaber combat and has extremely powerful Force powers as well. His TK is easily above anything Revan is capable of at the least. With the orbalisks, this is a very one-sided fight imo. Bane demolishes Revan in lightsaber combat.
Not a chance dude. Without orbalisks and rain deat, it is probably close, as they are both powerful force users. force powers probably cancel eahc other out, both peformf good feats,m but with rain feat and orbalisks bane would be too much in the saber battle and beats him 99/100.
In fact, out of all the "human" characters (ie exluding liek nihilus, vitiate, de sidious, family of the ones and others) orbalisks and speed make bane too powerful in saber combat (you could also include people in between liek Starkiller who is a tier beyond people like bane/revn/yoda but below the titans i mentioned, who cold proably overpower with the force, but then you have to uestion tuf's leven of canon which isd uestionable at best).
Bane have always struggled against powerful individuals. This is apparent enough.
I absolutely disagree because his feats are simply depicted in more beautiful form.
It can be argued that Nyriss alone stands above many powerful individuals in the mythos. However, Revan destroyed an opponent of this calibre without breaking a sweat.
Sorry, Bane's combat performance is below that of Revan's.
And on what basis have you concluded this? We never seen Revan in a situation in which he had to gather his power and then channel or focus it directly towards any target. In case of Bane, we get to see him in such a situation.
In case of Revan, we always find him performing actions in quick fashion (during the course of events depicted in the novel). It is apparent from his feats in the novel that he can also toss large and heavy objects like missiles without breaking a sweat. We have never seen the maximum of Revan in terms of his TK's abilities.
I disagree. I can say that Revan conjures up an FLS and destroys Bane with it.
And yes, Revan knows Force Lightning as per canonical sources. He never abandoned the dark side fully.
Last edited by S_W_LeGenD on Jan 1st, 2013 at 12:48 PM
This is true, if we consider Darth Revan; Jedi Master Revan is a tier above peak Bane.
No, Revan will dominate in a contest of Force powers. Sabers contest isn't so one-sided as well; keep in mind that Revan is also a very talented duelist; whether he faced Mandalorians; gigantic Droids; or formidable individuals - all were easy meals for him, even with sabers.
I will refrain from getting in to a heirarchy based debate here.
I do not think that Starkiller is above the likes of Bane, Revan and even Nyriss. He is just relatively much more explored in the context of Force powers. Different authors; different writing styles.
For me; performance in combat is all that counts.
Last edited by S_W_LeGenD on Jan 1st, 2013 at 12:58 PM
Saying that Revan somehow has better performances despite having weaker feats. Kinda dumb.
Not really. Bane has nbeen pretty consistently portrayed as an unstoppable juggernaut in combat and I don't see what makes Revan so great that he's be able to best him.
Lolwut.
Yes, Revan has great skill with lightning redirection. How does that translate into a being great in other areas?
So what? Thats my point, Revan has not demonstrated anywhere near the feats needed to beat Bane. You can whine about Revan having a limited media presence all you want, but that doesn't grant him that missing power. Where is your proof that he is close to Bane in terms of TK power? Bane has destroyed massive temples and disintegrated a dozen attackers at once. Revan's best feat is opening a door. There isn't even a comparison here.
And Bane blocks it with his lightsaber.
Oh I'm sorry, were you expecting me to be impressed about Revans force lightning skills of unknown power? Well I'm not. You cannot prove that it has enough power to get past Banes defenses or overload his orbalisks which tanked a million volts. GG Revan.
Performance, in combat situations, are feats in whole, bro.
Let us re-analyze Bane's performances then:
- Lord Kas'im proved to be a good match for Bane. You may argue that he is among the greatest duelists but he isn't noted much for his command in the Force. Even that power which Bane unleashed on Lord Kas'im after getting out of the Temple; did jack to the latter. Unfortunately for Lord Kas'im, he found himself in unfavorable circumstances and became a victim of it.
- Raskta Lsu proved to be a good match for Bane. You may argue that she is among the greatest duelists but she isn't noted much for her command of the Force either. So how come, Bane who is supposed to r**e opponents with the Force, could not manage to overcome Raskta in this manner at least? Zannah actually removed her from the picture.
- Darth Zannah proved to be a good match for Bane. Regardless of the martial superiority of Bane, just one talent of Zannah was sufficient to change the tide of this duel.
Revan is no slouch in Lightsaber combat either. He cannot be one of the Order's greatest champions without being exceptional in all aspects of combat; that he was. Every kind of opponent was easy meal for him with sabers. Just because we do not get to see him performing rain feat or something beautiful similarly, doesn't suggests that he cannot hold his own against other formidable duelists. Revan's precognitive abilities are legendary by all accounts. Even if an opponent is split-second late against him in a dueling contest; game is over for the opponent.
Yes.
Do you think that one gains this level of proficiency without considerable understanding of the Force in general? Ask Yoda.
Force Lightning is a symbol of pride for powerful Force-wielders. Tanking such kind of powers is no easy feat.
If Bane unleashes his Force Lightning against Revan; he is effectively doomed.
I have already pointed out that we never saw Revan in a situation in which he gathered his power and then channeled and/or focused it towards anything. This is evidence enough.
Correction: He destroyed the entrance of a (unmaintained) Temple in Lehon. And he performed this feat after he gathered his power and channeled it towards the intended target; which did jack to the opponent by the way who isn't even noted much for his command in the Force. Revan laughs.
And these attackers even compare to an ordinary Jedi in the context of defensive abilities; let alone Revan?
Those two doors were enormous in size:
Despite this, he still felt a chill in his gut when he saw again the enormous durasteel doors of the throne room.
Heavy:
The two soldiers who had been about to push open the heavy durasteel doors froze in place.
and also sealed.
Revan effortlessely handled this level of blockade:
Before they could join in the fight, Revan thrust his hand, palm up, in the direction of the sealed durasteel doors, blasting them wide open with the power of the Force.
It isn't like Maul messing with the electronics of a relatively much smaller single door to force it to open.
Also, if you consider concrete structures;
At the far end of the hall, another half a dozen of the Imperial Guard rounded the corner. Revan reached out with the Force and ripped the vaulted stone archway in the ceiling above them free from its setting. A shower of dust and debris rained down on the reinforcements, sending them into temporary retreat.
No where it is implied that Revan gathered his power to perform these feats. He simply gestured and feats happened.
Easy for you to say. Revan's Force Lightining can engulf the whole body of the target and not just the Lightsaber like you saw in the Battle of Geonosis.
Show me the exact detail involving tanking of Force Lightning.
Revan could easily handle extremely lethal bursts of Force Lightning; his own power would not be lesser by any means.
Last edited by S_W_LeGenD on Jan 1st, 2013 at 01:57 PM
Ten standard years had passed since he had lost his orbalisk armor. Ten years since his body had been burned almost beyond recognition by the devastating power of Force lightning unleashed from his own hand. Ten years since the healer Caleb had brought him back from the brink of death and Zannah, his apprentice, had slaughtered Caleb and the Jedi who had come to find them. (Dynasty of Evil)
Registered: May 2010
Location: No clue. Looks.... Blue?
Are you seriously dismissing Bane because of that? I find this LUL worthy.
On a serious note, Bane was compared to, "a force of nature" in RoT by Farfalla. Nothing they could do at all would be able to stop him. In a straight fight, Bane has emerged victorious every time, be it due to prowess, strength, or cunning (which he has all 3 of)
His lightning can also reduce armored men to ash (In RoT, after getting to Onderon from Dxun. Turns a guy who captured Zannah into ash)
Kas'im The Magnificent: Fought a Bane who had just barely left the Academy. Not to mention had an intimate knowledge of his saber style.
Raskta: Was handily losing while empowered by battle meditation. They were losing, they knew it. They had thought their last chance would have been for the other guy to kill Zannah and come help. Bane is just that good.
Zannah: Won by Deus Ex Machina. Bane had far superior showings in the Force, and handily beat her with sabers. There are very few circumstances where she could replicate that feat, and he still nearly won. A part of him remained inside her consciousness.
Neph has a half-decent assessment, of Bane being a juggernaut. Personally, I view it as him being totally unstoppable barring Deus Ex Machina.
(Oh, and orbalisks give him Force-steroids as well. Amplifies his power by a large amount)
It's funny that people want to belittle the feats and abilities of Bane and his contemporaries then pretend like others in the Old Republic pwn beyond all measure when there's no evidence to support that Bane's era was lacking in any way.
Fact is that the author's portrayals are canon, and just like we have to accept that Jacen was somehow able to over come Mara Jade by trickery, it has to be accepted that when someone's abilities are considered to be formidable that they are just that.
It's funny that Malgus, Revan, and a few other OR Force users are defended to the end but those same people always want to argue that Kas'im, Lsu, Farfalla, the entire Sith order, and in the end Bane are somehow garbage who had the benefit of clever writing on their side.
Canon is canon and based on what has been given to us Bane in orbalisks is an all-out offensive nightmare for most anyone. His speed, recovery, healing, and Force prowess are all amped up and short of decapitation there is almost no way to take him down. Revan dies again and again and again.
May I remind you that how Jedi Master Kriea defined Revan?
This is absolutely wrong.
-Did he emerge victorious against Zannah on his own?
-Did he emerge victorious against Raskta Lsu on his own?
His best showing is against Lord Kas'im.
I fully acknowledge the fact that Bane was intelligent. But so was Revan.
When Revan faced a formidable duelist in combat; he didn't exchange blow after blow with the opponent. Instead, he aided his actions with acrobatics and his exceptional precognitive abilities allowed him to outgun such a martial opponent ASAP.
For Revan, every kind of opponent was easy meal with sabers. This makes sense because he had previously fought through an entire army of Sith to reach the position of Darth Malak on Star Forge. This could only be possible through combination of great intelligence, skill with the blade and power of the Force.
Using the word 'armored' is futile unless that armor was designed to resist the effects of Force Lightning.
Darth Nyriss reduced two soldiers to charred smoking husks in split-second with just a casual burst of Force Lightning, as per her standards.
Bane's proficiency with Force Lightning isn't in question here; I can expect him to overwhelm many many potential opponents with Force Lightning; but Revan is on a different league then most in this aspect.
Bane was a fast learner nonetheless and had outperformed all students in the Academy during his time. When a Sith leaves an Academy, he is assumed to be prepared for external threats beyond.
Also, Bane learned a lot from Revan's holocron prior to his confrontation with Lord Kas'im; he had ample time for this. His power in the dark side coupled with immense knowledge of the Sith Lore was a winning combination.
Lord Kas'im was a great warrior IMO; a unique individual among the generally weak and pathetic brotherhood of darkness. But then canon implies that one has to be Vitiate or equivalent to push Revan to his limits. So what shall we do? Stop using logic?
They weren't loosing as long as BM was in effect. Unfortunately for them, Bane disturbed the guy who was aiding the other Jedi with BM with the Force, if I recall correctly. But then these Jedi did not offered much to Bane and Zannah in terms of offensive capabilities apart from their martial abilities.
I believe that Bane could handle her in a nuetral setting. Zannah's command of Sith Sorcery gaver her the edge she needed in the setting involving a dark side nexus. However, she endured all that martial pressure of Bane for a while which assures me that someone as capable as Revan can also do. His talents would permit him to do so and may even grant him an opening.
Some of the Revan's major opponents were also proficient in Sith Sorcery. Just a point to note.
I admire your liking of this character; he is also among the favorites of mine. However, Bane isn't the unstoppable juggernaut of destruction that some make him out to be.
Revan was extraordinarily powerful without such aids.
Last edited by S_W_LeGenD on Jan 1st, 2013 at 05:32 PM
If Bane has his orbalisks, Revan can force storm his orbalisks for a fast kill. Bane is REALLY at a disadvantage with his orbalisks when he's fighting someone who possesses force lightning. When it's on the level of a force storm, forget about it.
Jan 1st, 2013 04:19 AM
