Who would win in a battle to the death!
Setting: Senate room where Yoda and Darth Sidious fought.
No rules, only the strongest survives, BATTLE TO THE DEATH
In a strange twist of irony, Ahrael proved that Jacen had casual Telekinetic abilities on par with, or greater than Yoda.
And his swordsmanship is enough to give Peak-Luke hell and take out impressive Masters like Mara Jade and Kyle Katarn.
Add in Caedus' esoteric Force techniques and combat-arts - and Caedus is able to defeat Yoda, with high difficulty.
__________________ Originally posted by Arhael Okay, look. Um, me feels no agenda to meeting and vacuum in leadership position, so me has composed 12 point plan for good happy success.
Not to sell Caedus short, but in comparison to Yoda, I just don’t see him doing anything that Yoda cannot do better. (Save for pain threshold, but that will not help him much).
If Yoda can stalemate RotS Sidious (and even edge him out in sabers), than he will, albeit in a hard fight, win with Caedus.
__________________ Theory is like a box of tools. It must be useful. It must function. And not for itself.
While she may have used everything at her disposal, Mara Jade bested Caedus, only falling to him because of his poison dart. Caedus only survived Luke as long as he did because he was in an environment that gave him the aid of Vong biology and because of Ben's presence.
Caedus is not the equal of Yoda in sabers. Even in total Force prowess I don't give him the nod as with all his arcane techniques he was defeated over and over by Luke, Jaina, Mara Jade, etc. Even the Mandos threw him a beatdown.
Luke started fight with snick attack putting Caedus at disadvantage right at beginning. Caedus survived with help of vines. Both applied dirty tactics. Moreover, Luke took advantage of vines as well.
But most important is that, when they both had straight saber fight, Jacen broke Luke's leg.
Fight ended because Ben stabbed him in the back, not because Luke defeated him.
Overall, noone managed to batter Luke that bad. Not even Sidious. And noone fought Luke so evenly in sabers since Sidious as well.
Yoda will not be dealing with the same psychological issues that Luke was when fighting Jacen. Yoda wins.
__________________ "You must begin by gaining power over yourself; then another; then a group, an order, a world, a species, a group of species... finally, the galaxy itself."
- Darth Plagueis
"She may be small but she packs a punch and when shes in this mood...she goes for my danglers" - Oghren, Dragon Age
Just 1 year prior to DE Luke fought C'baot and even got overpowered by him, while Mara resisted his combined lightning and TK.
She fought Lord Nyax together with Luke and Tahiri. His strength was such that he could knock Vong off feet with one swing and was driving Luke back. His speed was such that he blitzed Voxin, while for Jedi strike team killing them was a "routine work". His Force power was such that he nearly mind dominated all three and demonstrated far superior TK. And Mara performed as good as Luke against him.
Mara defeated Lumya without use of shoto. Luke was able to do the same only because of desire to avenge Mara.
As you see there are plenty of evidence proving that Mara's combat capabilities are close to Luke. Luke himself had opinion that Mara would kick Jacen's ass.
Hah! Are you implying that Luke's performance was hampered? All evidence suggests opposite.
Luke was angry in that fight. Should I remind you how angry Luke outskilled Vader? Or how anger empowers Force users in general and makes them much more dangerous combatats?
Jacen followed the kick with a high slash. Luke blocked and spun inside, landing an elbow smash to the temple that dropped Jacen to his knees. He brought his own knee up under Jacen's chin, hearing teeth crack-and relishing it. He parried a weak slash at his thighs, then drew his blade up diagonally where his nephew's chest should have been. - Luke took early advantage of his sneak attack and nearly killed Jacen right at the begining. How many characters would be able to sustain elbow to the temple? Add the knee smash into chin followed by lightsaber strike into chest and it becomes miraculous that Jacen survived at all.
Jacen barely recovered from previous attack and Luke does another lethal combo: Jacen scrambled to his feet, barely bringing his weapon up in time to block a vicious downstroke. Luke landed a snap-kick to the stomach that lifted Jacen a meter off the deck, then followed it with a slash to the neck-
Luke struck again with his lightsaber, using both hands and putting all his strength into the attack, beating his nephew's guard down so far that Jacen's emerald blade bit into his own shoulder. - do you ever remember Luke trying to overpower someone with strength? Fight against Vader is perhaps the only example.
And yet another dirty trick from Luke:
"His blade met Jacen's in a shower of brilliant sparks. Luke freed one hand and drove a finger-strike at Jacen's eyes.
Jacen turned his head, but Luke's little finger scratched across something soft and bulbous. Jacen roared and stumbled away, shaking his head."
And another one:
"He landed an elbow and felt a bone in Jacen's face shatter."
Never in his life Luke fought so lethally. Never in his life he employed so many dirty tricks. Mara because of Ben almost killed Jacen. Luke fought for exactly the same reason, Ben's life depended on him. The assumption that he didn't fight at his best is simply unsupported.
So how exactly do you imagine Yoda beating Jacen? Luke did it through unarmed combat techniques, which he normally doesn't employ at all and still fight ended in stalemate. Yoda can't do same things cos of his physical limitations. Through pure saber skill? Yoda was unable to defeat Dooku on even ground. Sidious dropped lightsaber himself to prevent falling from platform, on even ground there is no way Sidious would get disarmed by Yoda. Luke is superior to both Dooku and Sidious and Caedus still badly battered him. That's sufficient enough to be above likes of Yoda and Windu.
Force: Darth Caedus has Telekinesis on par with Yoda, or perhaps greater - as a Jedi Apprentice, he managed to casually roll a ship roughly twice the size of an X-Wing - and rip one of it's wings off, to allow access for himself and his friends.
Logically, when he was older and more refined/stronger in this area, his status as a peer with Yoda in this area would be concrete.
Lightsaber Swordsmanship: Cadeus has demonstrated the remarkable defeat of two Jedi Masters who rival Yoda in most respects - Master Kyle Katarn, the neophyte who defeated a Dark Jedi on par with Vader; defeated a rogue Jedi who was able to stalemate Post-DE Luke and then went on to become the head lightsaber instructor or Battlemaster, of the Jedi Temple.
Caedus also defeated Mara Jade, a Jedi who was able to defeat Post-Jerec Kyle Katarn, when he had turned to the Dark side on Dromund Kaas, and who was also able to kill a variety of foes, including Luke Skywalker's Clone, the powerful clone of a Jedi Master, and multiple assassins and later Yuuzhan Vong.
Even when outnumbered (as with Katarn) or when the environment had been suited to his opponent's purpose (as with Mara) Caedus still had the skill and knowledge to defeat his considerably powerful opponents.
He later went toe-to-toe with a Force God Luke, and gave him hell.
Experience: Along with his earlier adventures, Caedus gained considerable experience during the Yuuzhan Vong War, learning how to connect to The Unifying Force (something Yoda can't connect to) and also learned esoteric Force abilities such as Flow Walking - through the course of his travels, he arguably experienced just as much warfare as Yoda, and also through the course of it, became a wiser individual.
Applicable Knowledge: As a Jedi Apprentice, Jacen had promise and was talented - when he became a Knight, he was formidable and had learned esoteric abilities, such as the unblockable technique of Emerald Force Lightning and was able to defeat opponents that even Jedi Master Kyp Durron could not - such as the Slayers.
After focusing and refining his knowledge and technique, he was finally able to defeat powerful Jedi Masters, that were arguably *approaching* the level of RotS Sidious (in terms of killing potential) - and even though he could beat the best of Luke's Order - it took the most powerful and refined version of the Chosen One to stop him.
Mathematically, in terms of power, skill and feats, Darth Caedus is on par with a much earlier version of Luke, DE Luke, who all Debators would agree could defeat Yoda in a close fight.
- In a straight fight, at reasonably close distances - Caedus wins.
Caedus does not win comfortably - and he would be covered in blood and exhausted - but he would win.
You make a good argument. However, Caedus does not have almost 900 years of experience that Yoda possesses. Caedus did well against Luke, but remember that Luke hesitated to kill a member of his family.
Would DE Luke beat Yoda? Luke was disarmed by Sidious without Leia's assistance while Yoda managed to outduel the dark lord.
Darth Caedus VS. Yoda
Feb 15th, 2013 04:56 PM
