Wouldn't Malgus's peak be when he became one with the force?
__________________ "Vader's pulse and breathing were machine-regulated, so they could not quicken; but something in his chest became more electric around his meetings with the Emperor; he could not say how. A feeling of fullness, of power, of dark and demon mastery -- of secret lusts, unrestrained passion, wild submission -- all these things were in Vader's heart as he neared his Emperor. These things and more."
Which is notable because Vader has a unique fighting style. I haven't seen anything to suggest that Malgus isn't just using bogstandard Djem So, which Galen is welll versed in.
Er, no. He beat Shaak Ti. They were even up until she decided to suicide by putting everything into speed and offense and basically threw herself onto his lightsaber. And he still managed to block two of her attacks with his lightsaber and the last one with the Force. He beat her, fair and square.
It clearly indicates he was able to do as well as he did because of that knowledge.
The apprentice simultaneously backflipped and blocked her opening blow. The force of it surprised him, and the recoil threw him backward. His hood caught on one of the sarlacc's teeth, and he tore it impatiently away before the snag could interfere with his defense. Shaak Ti's lightsaber was a jagged blue blur between them. He blocked her as best he could until he had his balance again.
Then he jumped. Over her he spun and fell down two layers of teeth toward the mouth of the sarlacc. From there he jumped up again, angling away from her to avoid giving the Jedi the advantage of height, but she was there ahead of him, driving him back down with a series of blows so rapid he barely caught them all.
On her last three words, she struck three blows that each partially found their mark. The first burned a sizzling line down the apprentice's left shoulder. The second scored diagonally across his chest. The third would have skewered his right eye had he not held her back at the last minute with a desperate telekinetic block that stopped her lightsaber barely a millimeter from his skin. He could feel his eyelashes and eyebrows burning. The right side of his sight was entirely blue.
She gasped and staggered backward. Her lightsaber and her gaze dropped. A full half meter of red blade emerged from her stomach, then the rest came free with a hiss.
He backed away, shocked by how close he had come to death and how lucky he had been to defeat her. He had raised his lightsaber by reflex. She had, in the desperation of her final assault, practically thrown herself on the blade. Perhaps she had meant for the two of them to defeat each other at the same time.
'The apprentice knew exactly what to expect. They had dueled many times before. He had learned how to fight at the hands of the man in the black suit-the man whose face had been forever hidden from him. He knew the intimacies of his refined version of Djem So, a fighting style that incorporated elements of Ataru, Soresu, and Makashi. He had fended off many wild, slashing attacks that would have overwhelmed even an extraordinary Jedi Knight. He had borne the brunt of many psychological battles.'
Then that does not indicate that Galen was only able to do as well as he did because he knew Vaders style, just that he knew it. Especially since immediately after that Vader reveals that he'd always held back against him. Besides which, Malgus also uses Djem So, so Galen obviously knows a good deal about Malgus' style too.
Ok, so I was wrong about him blocking the first two, but they were still even enough that she had to suicide in a desperate effort to kill him. Those moments you show of Starkiller "being on the backfoot" ignore that they continue to duel for a good length of time afterwards and that she clearly could not overcome or beat him, requiring her to go to such desperate lengths just to try to force a draw. Which he still overcame. She didn't 'spank' him, she lost.
Besides which, this was at the start of the book, and Galen clearly progresses in strength throughout.
It clearly gave him an advantage he wouldn't have against other foes.
...so why are you saying that Marek beat Vader as proof of him being superior to Malgus?
Fair enough, but if the ''force of her blows surprised him'' then I wouldn't want to see what would happen when facing Malgus who relies almost only on strength.
In fact, the text I ignored shows Marek as ''desperate''. I ignored it because I wanted to focus on the strict duel.
In desperation, he summoned a bolt of Sith lightning and sent it down, into the flesh of the sarlacc. The beast roared and shook, giving him the opening he needed. Shaak Ti's right foot slipped, forcing her to flip elegantly out of reach of his blade. He leapt after her, swinging as he came.
The fight progressed around the sarlacc's center rings, blow and counterblow accompanied by the roaring of the beast. The apprentice cut off teeth and threw the fragments at his adversary's head. In return she took tighter control of the beast's distributed intelligence and sent its food-seeking tentacles flailing for him. He repulsed them and fought on.
Down they drove each other, closer and closer to the very lip of the creature's enormous mouth. The air was foul down there, heavy with digestive by-products and the stink of rotting meat. Ghastly exhalations rolled over them as the sarlacc roared on. The apprentice was running out of teeth to sever, so he resorted more and more frequently to Sith lightning and random slashes of his lightsaber to keep it twitching underfoot. Thick ichor leaking out of the wounds made the footing even more treacherous.
In a strict duel I suppose you're not allowed to use the force except for augmenting physical attributes. For the duel,he was driven backwards, was desperate for the use of lightning and would've had his eye impaled had it not been for him stopping the blade, which isn't allowed in a strict duel.
As a duelist? Doubt it.
Last edited by Intrepid37 on May 4th, 2013 at 09:59 AM
Why wouldn't he have it against Malgus since he is also a Djem So duelist? And no it didn't. It only indicated that he was familiar with Vader's style. Nothing more. If anything since he can recognise the elements of the other forms in Vaders style I think it would indicate that he is quite knowledgable about lightsaber forms.
....... because he wasn't holding back in the final duel. Dur.
That indicates only that Shaak Ti is stong, not that Starkiller is weak. We know that's not the case since he can swing AT-ST legs around like baseball bats and throw TIE fighters with his bare hands.
Indeed, he was so desperate that he was able to evenly duel her to such an extent that she threw herself onto his blade in.... desperation. Wait what?
The text notes they 'drove each other', so clearly it wasn't Shaak Ti constantly driving her back. And he was only nearly impaled when Skaak Ti, again, abandoned defense. So maybe Malgus will be able to do the same if he's willing to die just like her.
Oh and it isn't allowed? Since when? I don't recall you being master of the rules.
Why wouldn't he considering how many duels he gets up to and that he's running around with a training droid? Considering that he's clearly progressed from the point that Vader feels comfortable holding back against him to the point where Galen beats him, I wouldn't dismiss the possibility altogether.
Either way, Galens defeat of Vader and the description of his skills are all I need to show that he's superior to Malgus. Your point about how he struggled against Shaak Ti is irrelevent, since it assumes that Malgus is her superior, when that could easily not be the case.
__________________
Last edited by Nephthys on May 4th, 2013 at 10:17 AM
Marek's Force showings are MUCH better than Malgus'.
In sabers Marek is no Yoda or Sidious, but neither is Malgus. If there is a difference between them, it's negligible.
All-out: Marek takes 8/10.
__________________ Theory is like a box of tools. It must be useful. It must function. And not for itself.
As noted by the text you provided, Vader uses a mix of Djem So, Makashi, Ataru and Soresu. Any other foe wouldn't know that. It's quite clear that he'd get an advantage others wouldn't have.
Vader was still testing him; he sensed that more and more keenly, with every passing moment, but to what purpose he still couldn't tell. Vader himself fought more cautiously than he had on the Death Star, the last time they had dueled in earnest. His armor seemed to have improved, too; it was less vulnerable to lightning than it had been just days before.
Point is, Malgus is almost surely stronger than Shaak Ti.
Marek himself notes how locky he was to survive.
I assumed that because fights are cut up in ''Force, Sabers and All-out'' that the characters are restriced to pure dueling in the ''Sabers'' category.
Possibly but that's speculation.
Malgus slew Zallow who slew three Sith in five seconds. As a Padawan, he slew Kao, has good strength feats and good speed. What has Shaak Ti done in comparison?
Which is exactly why knowing Vaders unique style is notable for that duel. It doesn't give him an advantage, merely nullifies the potential advantage of Vader's unorthodox style.
......
So..... why is that relevent to Malgus? Malgus doesn't have a unique style. The 'advantage' you're talking about is one that's only relevant against Vader.
I meant the final battle in TFU I. Vader wasn't holding back in that fight and Galen beat him.
Why? Because he has balls?
So again, maybe if Malgus kamikaze's Galen won't be so lucky.
Maybe. Maybe not. If they can amp themselves with the Force, why not be able to defend themselves with it too?
It's logic backed up with evidence.
Almost killed Galen Marek.
My point was that you were assuming something you didn't know, nor had been established. Shaak Ti by TFU was clearly more powerful than she had been in the CW, able to affect an entire planet with the Force and duel evenly with Marek. Given that she surprised a man who can throw TIE fighters around with her strength and almost kill the man who would go on to beat Darth 'badass' Vader, I wouldn't make that assumption.
Malgus beat Zallow who beat 3 nameless Sith mooks and Kao, who is impressive and looks good in a fight but since we only see him in a fight with Malgus thats kind of pointless (Malgus is impressive because he beat Kao who is impressive because he was impressive against Malgus).
You brought up Marek's duel with Vader as a proof that Marek>Malgus in sabers when in fact he had a certain advantage that Malgus wouldn't have. So I don't see why his fights with Vader are valid here. [/B][/QUOTE]
The text you provided about Marek knowing Vader's style is right before their final battle in TFU I. It's an unfair comparison to make as Malgus wouldn't have that same edge.
Kao was slain through strength. Watch the trailer. Furthermore, I recall he's broken ribs and had his opponents arms shaken and whatever.
Also, he's bald. His secret ways to winning is headbutting.
What do you mean?
That would make anything but All-out fights pointless. That's like saying saber-throw can be used in a force-only fight.
I can just as easily assume Shaak Ti decreased in saber-skills.
Agreed that she's improved in the force. But in her saber skills? Nothing indicates that as far as I'm aware.
Agreed with most of this. Kao, though, is somewhere noted to be the Battlemaster, could reflect lightning with his saber, displayed saber-throw, used a double-bladed lightsaber at the same with he used a normal lightsaber.
Sabers implies true sabers only. The combatants may be amped as much as possible, but assume that other uses of the Force are out the window and that the two are engaging each other to prove who is the superior duelist.
Which is only relevent if Malgus is fighting Vader. I'm only comparing Malgus to Vader, not saying that Vader could beat him, although he likely could. As a duelist I see Vader as superior to Malgus, hence why Galen beating him is evidence for me that he could beat Malgus.
See above.
Which only proves that he's stronger than Kao, not Shaak Ti. Given that she can push back Marek, I'd say that would be a mistaken assumption.
You're using Shaak Ti nearly beating Marek as proof that he's not all that in lightsaber combat. However she was only able to do that by kamikaze'ing. Were Malgus to imploy such a tactic, he may be able to do better.
Well it is a Force attack. It's simply an extension of telekinesis using a lightsaber as a thrown object.
Do you have anything to back that up?
As I recall she was termed as one of the best bladesbeasts in the Jedi Orders history, able to take on a good 20-30 magnaguards at once and dispatch several before they retreated.
Nah, in contrast Shaak Ti was termed as one of the greatest bladesbeats the order had ever produced, was known to be versed in all the forms, was able to replicate Kao's feat by fighting with a lightsaber and an electrostaff at the same time and could block lightsaber and electrostaff blows with the Force/her hands.
I respectfully disagree. Vader was hardly capable of keeping of with a doppelgänger of Maul. Just because Marek was beating Vader because of the knowledge he had of him, does it mean he can beat Maul too?
The answer is no, because he doesn't have that knowledge about him.
Post some strength feats of Shaak Ti's so we can compare them, then.
Sorry but I don't know what you mean by ''kamikaze'ing''.
It was just an example. Had Marek not used the force to stop the blade (which he can't in a saber-duel against Malgus) he'd been dead.
If you don't keep up with your saber, you're gonna get rusty. It happened to Obi-Wan, and while Shaak Ti did train Maris Brood, it was only to an extent in which Maris Brood did not ''understand what it meant'' that Marek changed his style.
I have no problem with Malgus taking sabers, but I believe that the difference between him and Galen is slight.
They both have quite good saber feats, both defeated some featless foes etc.
Your point about Galen's victory over Vader is a good call. However, Vader held back in their sparring matches, so even though Galen knows his technique, he does not know the true excess of Vader’s saber prowess.
But as I said, I have no real problem with Malgus taking sabers.
I am convinced, though, that the disparity between Malgus and Galen in the Force department is MUCH larger than in pure sabers. Galen has a decisive advantage here IMO, and he will be able to take the Force and all-out.
I can post some more Galen’s Force feats that eclipse that of Malgus (if you’re not convinced by now by the ones already posted). But give me some time, I’m a bit busy at the moment.
__________________ Theory is like a box of tools. It must be useful. It must function. And not for itself.
Last edited by axel_jovan on May 4th, 2013 at 05:35 PM
May 4th, 2013 04:34 AM
