That sounds pretty awesome. Where exactly is it from?
__________________ Recently Produced and Distributed Young but High-Ranking Political Figure of Royal Ancestry within the Modern American Town Affectionately Referred To as Bel-Air.
Anakin would stomp Abeloth and the Father more than likely.
Vitiate and Sidious have no chance if he really stomped RotS Sidious and Yoda together.
Anakin is likely immune to Nihilus due to his experiences with the Dark Reaper.
The World Razer would eat him though.
What is so funny about this? You think that Sith Sorcery is a matter of joke?
Really? The Father put him in his place rather easily, if I recall correctly.
Also, I do not understand that how can a mortal be stronger than unnatural entities?
Depends upon how they prepare themselves and what kind of powers they use. Solution lay in the nature of the technique and not just raw power.
Anakin wasn't actually immune to power of Dark Reaper but could rather cope with it to certain degree (thanks to Ulic's teachings). In addition, the Dark Reaper wasn't in its best operational condition during this time or else it would have consumed any living being in its path. Remember that it was a superweapon.
Last edited by S_W_LeGenD on Aug 27th, 2013 at 09:03 PM
Why are you getting so indignant over defending your [pure evil and genocidal] favorite character? If this mortis Anakin really can defeat Yoda and Palpatine together (each individually could defeat Vitiate), what is the Sith Emperor with his "sith sorcery" going to do?
Yoda and Palpatine (G-canon) do not pack sufficient power to handle Vitiate; they might have a chance with their martial abilities but they have got nothing on him with their Force abilities and Vitiate knows how to handle extremely martial opponents. Also, if Vitiate looses an avatar, he would simply switch to another one. Secondly, some techniques are of such a nature that it might not be possible to counter them with conventional (Force based) defensive applications/methods.
Sith Sorcery represents "supernatural" facet of dark side abilities; it is a pathway to unlock powers of such nature that defy natural explanations and ground realities and are most often impossible to counter with conventional (Force based) defensive applications/methods. Sith Sorcery based talents might be the only way to counter such powers. However, Anakin is not an expert in the field of Sith Sorcery.
Last edited by S_W_LeGenD on Aug 27th, 2013 at 09:14 PM
No. Sidious is canonically > Vitiate by almost literally dozens of sources.
I don't know what is it with you and meaningless, almost pathetic adjectives; of course sith sorcery is "supernatural". The Force itself is "supernatural". How does this mean anything?
And you're assuming that Yoda and Sidious would not be familiar with sith sorcery; in reality, the former studied sith holocrons and developed defenses against dark side techniques, and the latter is himself a master of sith sorcery (he clouds the entire Jedi Order's Force connection and, with Plagueis, knocks the Force itself out of balance).
Do not expect me to respond to this type of argument (ever). Focus on the capabilities of the characters in question instead.
The Force is a special form of energy field which have both metaphysical and supernatural aspects.
Sith Sorcery is a field of dark side practices which unlocks the supernatural facet of The Force. Their is no Jedi alternative for this.
Understand?
Jedi have managed to develop different kinds of countermeasures against a variety of dark side abilities but this is a never-ending race and acquiring extreme proficiency in defensive aspects of the Force is not an easy task. Even the strongest Jedi are pushed to their limits by "commonly known" Sith applications (The "not so commonly" known ones have set the bar a lot higher). Both the Jedi and Sith have history of exploring ways to undermine each other and both have developed applications which can bypass well-known countermeasures. However, the Sith went a step further by exploring supernatural ways to undermine Jedi powers. Sith Sorcery based talents are typically of such a nature that they are impossible to counter through conventional methods.
More importantly, in history, precious information about The Force related talents, secrets and discoveries have been lost on several occasions during different events and a chunk of knowledge have not been recorded ever.
Last edited by S_W_LeGenD on Aug 27th, 2013 at 10:08 PM
I don't care if you find canon evidence to be inconvenient. Canon evidence is canon evidence, and cannot be dismissed by fan-made policies or arbitrary declarations.
Metaphysical = supernatural...
Source needed.
Yoda has access to perhaps the largest collection of Force information ever assembled in galactic history, and has, according to a citation I admit-tingly cannot find, developed a defense for every dark side technique. You could argue that his knowledge of the Force exceeds the Sith Emperor's.
And I don't know why your pointing out that sith sorcery is difficult to defend against somehow precludes Yoda's being able to defend against it...
And you ignored the point that Palpatine is himself a master of sith sorcery. Sorcery, mind you, is hardly an insta-win card; Zannah barely managed to defeat an aging Bane, despite being able to draw on DS energies that explicitly make her sorcery possible/more powerful. And pointing out that Vitiate is far more powerful than Zannah...really would demonstrate a lack of understanding of my point.
The Sith Emperor has mastered the dark side's power to become the most dominating Force-user the galaxy has ever seen. (SWTOR: Codex Entry)
The Sith Emperor is the most powerful Force-user who has ever existed. Unless this implacable enemy can be defeated, the Jedi Order is doomed. (SWTORE, Page 89)
Apart from the hype factor, Vitiate is apparently noticeably more powerful and capable then Sidious (G-canon) on the basis of his capabilities, feats and affirmed superiority over a huge LIST which includes some individuals with mind-boggling capabilities of their own.
My bad! The Force have both metaphysical and physical dimensions.
You need a source to figure out what Sith Sorcery is all about?
He got access to (destroyed) records somehow or records that have never been recovered? He may have access to largest collection of information but that information might still be inadequate in the grand scheme of things.
Also, Sith Emperor's talents are a mystery to even Sith (Forget the Jedi).
I am not doubting Yoda's proficiency in defensive applications but do you have an example which affirms that he have an answer to Sith Sorcery based talents and which ones in particular?
Do not make assumptions which you may find impossible to support.
Sith Sorcey can be an insta-win card as apparent from examples of Vitiate being able to purge entire Councils in a single attack with his mysterious abilities; the proficiency of a Force-user in the field of Sith Sorcery makes difference. Sidious was learning about Sith Sorcery with passage of time but he wasn't comparable to Vitiate in this field until his DE incarnation.
In addition, I don't need to compare Vitiate with Zannah in this aspect to prove his superiority over her in this field. Zannah turned the tide of her duel with Bane in her favor with her Sith Sorcery based talents; without such talents, she would have lost. However, Vitiate may have one-shotted Bane to oblivion; he was this much proficient. Vitiate is, by far, the greatest known practitioner of Sith Sorcery in the mythos.
Last edited by S_W_LeGenD on Aug 27th, 2013 at 10:41 PM
I've skimmed over said encyclopedia. It's clearly written in the restricted perspective of the time period and makes no reference to events beyond TOR (to my knowledge). It's also obviously contextual, since Abeloth and countless other entities are undoubtedly above him.
So, the Sith Emperor is the most powerful (within the relative timeframe of that era's galactic happenings) Force user up to his time...Palpatine is the most powerful sith lord at least up to his own time. And some of said latter assertions include information beyond the OT era.
I'm just going to ignore your arbitrary restriction of my range of evidence to G-canon, ironic enough given that Vitiate doesn't even exist under that level. Beyond Palpatine's vastly superior bladework and tactical acumen, he has demonstrated the ability to cloud the minds of the entire Jedi Order (actually in G canon), remove the memories of an event from the entire galaxy, knock the Force itself out of balance with his mere presence, and drain energies from entire planetary populations.
Um, what? The Force manifests itself in its ability to manipulate physical events, such as telekinesis and foresight, but this hardly puts sorcery as something intrinsically separate from regular Force abilities to any combatively meaningful degree.
For example, Plagueis in his novel realizes that, contrary to previous belief, one does not need a natural affinity with sith magic beyond Force sensitivity to master it; he himself manages to learn it through sheer force of will, despite having no inborn ability in that area.
Why do you assume Vitiate has access to more in the "grand scheme of things"?
Records had been lost since Vitiate's time; but new records have doubtlessly been created since, and in a technological, space age society, the rate of the latter would certainly outstrip the latter's. And whereas Vitiate largely had knowledge only from whatever survived from the older sith empire, Yoda had the entire, mostly unbroken line of the Jedi Order, and data from various sith empires, including from sith orders after Vitiate's time.
Evidence...?
OK, please state specifically which techniques Vitiate would employ against Yoda.
With prep time, and off-screen. We have no idea how he did it, or whether he could replicate it in a fair fight.
No, Palpatine by RotS has already upset the balance of the Force and clouded the entire Jedi Order.
And if Vitiate really has insta-win Force techniques he can use on the fly, explain why he uses none against Revan's strike team.
Aug 27th, 2013 07:26 AM
