I'm going with Caedus. Superior lightsaber skills (would have beat Kyle Katarn, an "expert swordsman" in 15 seconds), best telekensis (moved a 40 meter ship), got some crazy force powers (flow walk, fold space, etc etc), and has just more raw power (able to go head to head with Luke Skywalker).
__________________ "There is only Revan. Only he can shape this galaxy as it is meant to be shaped."
__________________ "Happiness is a lie. Life is horror. The light is always dying all across the universe. The last star will flicker out someday, when it does, all that remains is shadow. And I will be its king!"'-Amahl Farouk
HoT subdued Lord Praven (Prime) and Lord Scourge (Prime). Both of these Lords put even the likes of Kyle Katarn to shame, actually many many others to shame.
- Lord Praven have history of comfortably defeating well-known Jedi Masters, one of Praven's victims was regarded as among the finest duelists of the Order in its history.
- Lord Scourge have history of defeating over a thousand Jedi and Sith adversaries during his prime.
HoT once temporarily shutdown a gigantic electronic bridge with just a thought. This bridge was so big that armies could march through it.
In addition, HoT defeated Bengal Morr in single combat, a warrior who defeated a Jedi Master who once collapsed a gigantic cave with a gesture from a single hand.
Heck, HoT once tanked a blast of power (Force push) from Sith Emperor, something that even Revan was not able to pull off.
Caedus is vastly explored in the lore and his talents are well-known. In contrast, HoT is a much lesser explored character at the moment so a fair comparison of talents is not possible at the moment.
Also, Caedus doesn't have the raw power to go toe-to-toe with Luke. Caedus's performance against Luke appears to be a superficial attempt from the author to hype him. Luke never used his Force powers to disarm Caedus even though he could and end the duel on short notice.
Last edited by S_W_LeGenD on Apr 17th, 2014 at 07:28 PM
HoT has also defeated expert swordsmen. And Caedus didn't even beat him with his lightsaber, he threw a car at him.
In the Dark Side ending the HoT telekinetically manhandles a struggling Vitiate. True, the man was pretty ****ed at the time, but he still collapsed the temple afterwards.
Not too helpful.
And the HoT couldn't go head to head with Luke Skyjobber? Also, Luke has dominated Caedus with the Force at least twice I can recall.
lol @LeGenD swarming in out of no where to defend his beloved.
Kyle Katarn beat Sariss ("Out of all the Dark Jedi I have met, Sariss is the one I can say... I fear. Powerful, strong in both the physical and mental arenas of the Force, she is a master, a perfectionist, quiet and reserved. This makes her a very dangerous foe.") and Jerec (most powerful of all the Inquisitors). And is referred to as a "master swordsman."
That's not a telekinetic feat.
Maul and Plo Koon has done this.
And that logic doesn't even work. If Maul collapses a cave, and Kenobi beats him, that doesn't mean Kenobi can do the same.
I don't recall Vitiate even doing that to Revan.
Your excuses are meaningless to me.
If you think you are going to win this debate by pulling a "hype" card, you better just concede now.
BS. You still have not even read the fight.
..then-as Jacen pivoted to protect his injured eye-Luke hit him with a Force wave.Jacen went flying, and it required only a soft nudge to steer him into a tendril-draped rack in the far corner. He hit with so much cracking and crashing that Luke worried the rack had broken, but the thin tendrils quickly entwined Jacen in a net of pulsing green. "
__________________ "There is only Revan. Only he can shape this galaxy as it is meant to be shaped."
Last edited by Jaggarath on Apr 17th, 2014 at 07:34 PM
^ Note for first part:
Kyle isn't Caedus's best feat, it's going head to head with Luke Skywalker as equals. This is the man who defeated Palpatine's clone (stated superior to Vitiate) in pure lightsaber combat, defeated dozens of Sith on the brink of death, fought Abeloth numerous times, stated most powerful Jedi etc etc.
__________________ "There is only Revan. Only he can shape this galaxy as it is meant to be shaped."
In their final fight, he didn't "struggle" with her, the only thing was her lightwhip kept him off balance for like a sentence. You can't ignore his 100s of feats of slaughtering Sith to stormtroopers to Vongs to his lightsaber prowess against powerhouses like Palpatine.
__________________ "There is only Revan. Only he can shape this galaxy as it is meant to be shaped."
You have a problem with which characters I choose to debate for?
Katarn is good but his loss to Caedus doesn't bodes well for his reputation, specially when he had support on his side.
If Katarn was so powerful, he would have deflected the vehicle flung at him by Caedus. But nope.
You want example of bad@ssry? Read about Aryn Leener. In once encounter, she lifted SIX vehicles and hurled them like missiles towards some opponents with her telekinetic abilities. In another encounter, she comfortably deflected a Force wave from one of her opponents which was potent enough to topple/destroy large statues in the vicinity and overwhelm a Force adept.
Now guess what? HoT > Leener > Katarn
What it is then? Singing competition?
Bengel Morr was found to have overwhelmed that Jedi Master with his powers, enough evidence of his relatively superior might.
Emperor send Revan packing with a Force push at one point during their second confrontation.
What excuse? Some characters in the mythos are vastly more explored then others. Caedus is featured in many books, it is obvious that a lot about him have been revealed in written literature. In comparison, HoT is a newcomer to the mythos.
Nice catch. Well, this proves that Luke clearly outguns Caedus in Force mastery department. And Luke's best course of action should have been to use his powers to subdue Caedus but he didn't and played along with Caedus's strengths and got injured in the aftermath. Luke made poor decision in this duel.
Last edited by S_W_LeGenD on Apr 18th, 2014 at 09:25 PM
Where it is stated that Palpatine is superior to Vitiate? Pulling statements out of your... I hope you get the memo. Don't make tall claims without concrete evidence.
Dude, are you seriously asking me where it says Palpatine is the most powerful Sith Lord? And that I have no evidence to back it up?
-Creating Force Storms capable of destroying fleets of ships and devastating the surfaces of planets
-Surviving as a spirit whenever his body is killed and traveling as a spirit across lightyears of space
-Making the planet Byss a dark side nexus
-Siphoning the life energies of the nearly 20 billion inhabitants on Byss
-Telepathically subjugating the wills of nearly 20 billion beings on Byss, erasing the memories of millions on Coruscant, and inducing fear into thousands of Jedi across the galaxy
-Projecting Force Lightning capable of scorching Sithspawn to ash, burning people to skeletons, and contorting lightsaber blades
-Causing the Force to become imbalanced to blind the Jedi's perceptions
-Hiding his Force sensitivity from the most powerful Jedi in the Order
-Perceiving events and eventualities throughout the galaxy
-Altering the tides of battles by influencing armies and fleets
-Controlling midi-chlorians to sustain life
-Moving his lightsaber too fast to be seen by Jedi who can react to lightning bolts and ships flying at sublight speeds
Vader imagined the power that could be his if he crushed Palpatine and established his own rule over the Empire. But first, he would need his own apprentice. By himself, he could not hope to defeat the most powerful Sith Lord the galaxy had ever known.
--Taken from Vader: The Ultimate Guide
Yoda went after Palpatine in the empty Senate chamber, but could not defeat the most powerful Sith Lord in history.
--Taken from The New Essential Chronology
Beyond the vision of the Jedi Knights, somewhere within the darkness, the greatest master of evil ever to use Sith power bides his time. As his strength grows, his plans begin to shape the course of the galaxy, and his snares await the unsuspecting.
--Taken from The Complete Visual Dictionary
When Yoda crosses sabers with the movie's arch-villain, he doesn't launch into a pinwheeling display of acrobatics, as he did against Count Dooku in Episode II. Instead, Yoda faces the dark side's fury, channeled by the most powerful Sith Lord in history. "Rob Coleman wanted Yoda to feel the power of his enemy," says Wheless, "like a force he's never dealt with before."
--Taken from Insider #86: Yoda's Right Arm
The Sith have waited millennium for the birth of one who is powerful enough to return them from hiding. Darth Sidious is that one—the Sith's revenge on the Jedi order for having nearly eradicated the practitioners of the dark side of the Force.
--Taken from The Complete Visual Dictionary
The Sith Order, in hiding for a millennium, had awaited the birth of one who was powerful enough to return the Order to prominence. Darth Sidious was the fulfillment of that prophecy, capable of exacting the Sith's revenge on the Jedi for having nearly eradicated the practitioners of the dark side of the Force.
--Taken from The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia
Darth Sidious proved to be the grim culmination of a thousand years of Sith philosophy and teachings.
--Taken from Jedi vs Sith: The Essential Guide to the Force
When the Sith finally emerged from a thousand years of watching and waiting, they numbered—in accordance with the tradition set down by Darth Bane—only two. The most powerful of these was Darth Sidious, an ice-cold, diabolically calculating genius equipped with the strength of the dark side of the Force, as well as an enormous wealth of Sith artifacts, equipment, and knowledge.
--Taken from The Dark Side Sourcebook
In truth, Palpatine was well versed in the ways of the Force, having been apprentice to Darth Plagueis the Wise, a Sith Lord who was a master of arcane and unnatural knowledge. In true Sith tradition, Palpatine murdered his Master upon receiving the skill and ability to do so.
--Taken from The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia
Unknown to the Rebels, the Emperor had already laid the groundwork for the perpetual rule of his New Order. He had turned a Jedi into his new dark apprentice, the terrifying Darth Vader. Vader himself trained apprentices. And the Emperor created a corps of loyal, Force-skilled minions to maintain his rule. Most powerful of all, of course, was the Emperor himself.
--Taken from The Dark Side Sourcebook
Inside the spacious interior of the Galactic Senate chamber, Yoda challenged the Emperor. The two engaged in a spectacular duel—a contest between the most powerful practitioners of the Force’s light and dark sides.
--Taken from The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia
It quickly became clear to Luke that this decrepit and seemingly defenseless old man was masterfully adept in the ways of the Dark Side of the Force. Indeed, as Vader had warned, the Emperor had become the Dark Side's most powerful expression.
--Taken from the Dark Empire endnotes
Even Ulic Qel-Droma would be envious of Palpatine. He had succeeded where all others had failed in taming the Dark Side.
--Taken from Dark Empire Sourcebook
Sidious knew that his own powers had increased tenfold over the decades, but he couldn’t be certain he had learned all of Plagueis’s secrets—“his sorcerer’s ways,” as the Sun Guards referred to them—including the ability to prevent beings from dying.
--Taken from Darth Plagueis
Resurrected in a youthful clone body, Palpatine does not reveal himself immediately. Studying the dark side of the Force to become more powerful, his education results in three manifestos: The Book of Anger, The Weakness of Inferiors, and The Creation of Monsters.
--Taken from The Ultimate Visual Guide
Palpatine knew precisely why the Empire couldn’t last without his dread power: he had designed it that way. No one ever suspected how much he relied on the Dark Side of the Force. He shaped those of his government by using the Force against them. He used it to control his fleets and to drive his soldiers on to victory. He used it to destroy his enemies from a distance and learn of conspiracies against him. Without it, there was no way the Empire could endure, as he had designed it. The Dark Side flowed through him like some primordial ichor and was the key to all his power. Soon he was ready to strike. Fully healed and in greater control of the Dark Side than ever, he finally acted to end the Mutiny.
--Taken from Dark Empire Sourcebook
The feeling had begun as a faint stirring in the Force, like the tiniest ripple of something moving slowly through deep water, far away but drawing steadily closer. It intensified, until it felt like the Force itself was roiling, heaving like the sea in the grip of an enormous storm. The commandos guarding the royal chamber reached for their throats. As Maul watched, an unseen forced lifted them high in the air, then slammed them to the floor, where they lay motionless in their red-and-black armor. The doors opened, then closed behind a figure in dark robes. A deep cowl hid most of the face, leaving only a pale chin and a downturned mouth visible. To most eyes the man in those simple robes of rough cloth was unremarkable, just another being making his way in the universe. But to those who could feel the Force he was anything but ordinary. To them, he was a dark sun blazing with power that was simultaneously hypnotizing and terrifying to behold.
Darth Sidious, the reigning Dark Lord of the Sith, had come to Mandalore.
Savage stared at the new arrival in astonishment, transfixed by the sight.
--Taken from Darth Maul: Shadow Conspiracy
And then there was Palpatine, of course: he was beyond power. He showed nothing of what might be within. Though seen with the eyes of the dark side itself, Palpatine was an event horizon. Beneath his entirely ordinary surface was absolute, perfect nothingness. Darkness beyond darkness.
A black hole of the Force.
--Taken from Revenge of the Sith
The key to Luke's turning is the moment when he and Leia realize the Emperor is no longer defined by his physical form, but has become a chaotic nexus of dark energies that swell and burst open the fabric of space, tearing apart everything in the vicinity, human and machine.
--Taken from the Dark Empire endnotes
Any unusual localization, or vergence, of dark side Force energy. These strange locales emanated the dark side of the Force, and were considered focal points of power for dark side users. As such, they were often guarded by Jedi Knights to prevent their discovery and exploitation. Known dark side nexuses included the twisted tree-cave on Dagobah, Halagad Ventor's hermitage on Trinta, and a "stain" of dark side energy that hovered over Endor following the defeat of the Emperor.
--Taken from The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia
Had this human truly been born of flesh-and-blood parents? Plagueis asked himself. When, in fact, he seemed sprung from nature itself. Was the Force so strong in him that it had concealed itself?
--Taken from Darth Plagueis
Palpatine has spent decades studying the most arcane and esoteric Jedi disciplines. It is believed that he has mastered nearly all the known powers, previously unknown powers, and devises new ones at his pleasure.
--Taken from Dark Empire Sourcebook
/thread
__________________ "There is only Revan. Only he can shape this galaxy as it is meant to be shaped."
Apr 17th, 2014 07:03 PM
