Can TCW Maul replicate Dooku's performance in ROTS?
Can Maul as of Son of Dathomir replicate Dooku's fight on the invisible hand
Same circumstances as the movie/novel
Who wins
__________________ "Happiness is a lie. Life is horror. The light is always dying all across the universe. The last star will flicker out someday, when it does, all that remains is shadow. And I will be its king!"'-Amahl Farouk
I don't see why not. Maul already completely overpowered Kenobi's Force defenses and ragdolled him on at least three occasions, which is exactly what Dooku did on the Invisible hand.
If you mean could he hold them both off long enough for him to knock Obi-Wan out, then again, yes. Dooku is not a defensive fighter and his still (barely) managed to hold them off. Maul should be able to do the same, given his physical superiority and talent at acrobatics.
Maul lacks Dooku's encyclopedic knowledge on Ataru, any familiarity with Anakin, and his (Dooku's) performance against other tier 9's. Tyranus' style is also, in my opinion, better for engagements like this.
Maul shouldn't be able to replicate Dooku's performance, no.
It didn't seem to harm his efforts against Qui-Gon(who Dooku trained, by the way).
That cuts both ways. Anakin faced Dooku multiple times, but never someone as physical, ferocious and unpredictable as Maul. While it's noted in ROTS that Anakin and Obi-Wan learned from their defeat on Genosis and prepared themselves thoroughly for their next encounter with Dooku.
Come to think of it, Anakin has faced Ventress and Savage(briefly), who are both lesser versions of Maul in all respects, and his record against them isn't exactly stellar.
As far as I can tell, that only means Yoda, and he barely got out alive. And Yoda was, to put it bluntly, holding back.
Maul seemed to be doing fine against both Mace and Aalya Secura though.
It's better for him in the sense that its efficiency allowed him to conserve energy. But that was never Maul's problem.
And Dooku never had the initiative on the Invisible Hand. He spent the whole time barely keeping it together. On the other hand Juyo is dynamic, ferocious and unpredictable. Just the perfect thing to throw a wrench into Obi-Wan and Anakin's perfect coordination and teamwork.
I didn't say a lack of knowledge harms someone, but having that knowledge helps you significantly. It basically meant that Obi-Wan had no offensive ability against Dooku. Maul doesn't have that, so that's an advantage of Dooku's that he's lost, no matter how you spin it.
RotS Anakin is as physical and ferocious as Maul, though - that's the thing. And he's better at the physicals.
The Savage that Anakin fought seems to be stronger than Maul, and certainly much stronger than he normally is.
As for Ventress, that tends to be just TCW. RotS Anakin is far and away superior to the versions of Anakkin that you cited, by the way.
Yoda wasn't holding back per the script, and no obvious implication of him holding back was in either the film or the novel. You only have the junior novel, where Yoda pretty much only fights defensively and Dooku can't break through said defenses. But there's sources suggesting that Dooku was near-equal to Yoda as well, and other sources suggesting that the Count legitimately contended with Yoda.
Sidious was holding back to an almost certainly greater degree (than Yoda) against Maul, and yet, even with Savage's aid, Maul was being outright controlled in his fight with Sidious. That wasn't so with Dooku against Yoda. There was a legitimate sense of contention - one utterly missing from Maul vs Sidious until the end part where Maul was enraged over his brother's death, and even then, Sidious was confirmed to be toying with him.
Likewise, Dooku performs better against Yoda in the movie script that Maul does against Sidious in Shadow Conspiracy, sources in which both Yoda and Sidious are going all-out.
Based on a single snapshot?
No, it's better because it allows him to address his opponent's technique instead of just bullrushing into his opponents, one of which is better than Maul at the whole bullrushing thing to begin with. Exploiting momentary lapses and flaws in your opponent's technique is going to be a lot more effective here than charging headlong into a tier 9 and a tier 8 that works with said tier 9 perfectly.
That's according to the novel only. Dooku fares better in the film and the junior novel.
Last edited by SunRazer on Nov 12th, 2016 at 11:31 PM
I think it does. His physical capacity can help him overcome, even if partially, one of Dooku's major weakness in that bout - the intensity of Sky's blows. His aggressive fighting style can help him to possibly disrupt Skywalker momentum right and there.
The novel doesn't state that it was a weakness of Dooku's - just that Anakin's Djem So was better at it, as it should be compared to most, if not all, styles.
Anyways, Maul's emphasis on a more physically-oriented dueling style is likely to leave him worse off since Anakin's faster, stronger, and more skilled. Dooku's emphasis on technique at least allows him to take advantage of momentary flaws in Anakin's fighting better than Maul can. And if Nick Gillard is any indication, taking advantage of those momentary flaws is basically the only thing you can do against Anakin unless you're Yoda or Palpatine.
Last edited by SunRazer on Nov 12th, 2016 at 11:39 PM
It was a relative weakness, yes - I'm not saying Dooku is weak against strong opponents, only that was a major weakness against Skywalker specifically (and thus, relative) to the point Dooku's force reserves were almost completely drained just to withstand Skywalker's "meteor strikes" blows. Maul being able to press one or two blows with a more aggressive style should be capable to affect Skywalker momentum, even if just to last some seconds more.
Maul's going to clash head-on with Anakin, and lose, because Anakin's just better than him in everything. At least Dooku can exploit a mistake or something due to the precise nature of his form.
Anakin is so powerful that it constitutes a relative weakness to Dooku in comparison, that's my point...especially when Dooku's perception was almost reduced to normal human levels just to fuel his strenght to not be overwhelmed by Anakin's.
I never said Maul would win. Only that he could potentialy do better the solo part of the fight.
Nov 12th, 2016 10:27 PM
