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Strongest Scifi power/race/empire the Goa'uld from Stargate can defeat
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Omega Vision
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Strongest Scifi power/race/empire the Goa'uld from Stargate can defeat

It seems most people believe that forces like the Borg and the Galactic Empire would crush the Goa'uld Empire, so I'm asking what people think the strongest empire or race or other kind of scifi organization is that the Goa'uld could defeat.

Here are the stipulations: must be from a science fiction Universe, must be a race, empire, or organization, no individuals or small groups, and we are using the Goa'uld Empire circa SG-1 season six, and assuming that in this struggle they don't (by some miracle) fall to infighting, and are united under a single leader, like Sokar, Anubis, Ba'al, or Apophis.


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Old Post Mar 18th, 2013 03:04 PM
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ScreamPaste
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I feel dumb for not knowing anything about the Goa'uld. Never watched the Stargate tv series.


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Old Post Mar 18th, 2013 06:17 PM
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Omega Vision
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
I feel dumb for not knowing anything about the Goa'uld. Never watched the Stargate tv series.

Well, it's a pretty large series with ten seasons, though for the purposes of the Goa'uld only the first 8 seasons really matter (and by the eighth season the old school Goa'uld were weakening and new threats were starting to appear).

The basics are that they are parasitic snakes who use humanoid hosts (though I seem to recall a Goa'uld taking control of a carnivorous insect that had been eating his host as part of a torture ritual) and pose as Gods of human cultures (think the Ancient Astronaut theory). By reverse engineering technology of the aliens who built the Stargates and by discovering Earth and seeding the galaxy with human slaves they managed to forge an empire that for ten thousand years spanned most of the Milky Way Galaxy. They have thousands of ships, an untold number of jaffa soldiers, and planets full of human servants (though few of these worlds appeared to be industrialized, and in the movie, Continuum, one of the Goa'uld System Lords reacted with shock and disgust when she discovered that Earth's human population had reached billions, implying that the mean population of Goa'uld worlds is in the millions or less).

Their primary ships are called Ha'taks, and they're close to a kilometer wide. Their shields are strong enough to deflect a pair of naquadah-amped nuclear warheads (which, IIRC were stated as being 1000 times as powerful as normal nukes) without any trouble, and their weapons were powerful enough to overcome the shields of other Ha'taks. Each Ha'tak carries up to two thousand Jaffa troops (which I've always thought was a stupidly small number considering you could fit twice as many troops on a comparatively smaller cruise ship), and Jaffa troops are essentially humans who are trained from birth to fight for the Goa'uld and incubate immature Goa'uld symbiotes in their bellies. This gives them greater strength than normal humans (the best and strongest of them might qualify for Peak Human status), greater reflexes, a more powerful immune system, a longer life span (provided they keep getting new symbiotes they can live well past 100 years and still be strong and vital), and a moderate healing factor.


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“Where the longleaf pines are whispering
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Where the faint murmurs now dwindling
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-A Grave Epitaph in Santa Rosa County, Florida; I wish I could remember the man's name.

Old Post Mar 18th, 2013 07:21 PM
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ScreamPaste
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From the sounds of this, you might get a good fight from the Terran Dominion of Star Craft. Not sure they'd (The Goa'uld) come out on top, but their empire is certainly larger, if not as well armed.


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Old Post Mar 18th, 2013 07:26 PM
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FinalAnswer
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From what I remember, would give the Mass Effect universe a good fight.

EDIT: As far as individual races, without any intervention, the Goa'uld could probably conquer most everyone except maybe the council races and the Batarians.

Not counting Reapers because lol.


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Last edited by FinalAnswer on Mar 18th, 2013 at 08:22 PM

Old Post Mar 18th, 2013 08:16 PM
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Omega Vision
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Are there any Babylon 5 fans here? At what level are the Babylon 5 factions? Oh, and what about the races/factions from Halo?

I haven't read any of the Halo novels, so I'm not sure what they say about the power of the Covenant, but I've often wondered if the Covenant could beat the Goa'uld.

Also, more specs on the Ha'taks: they have sublight drives that are easily capable of going 5% of lightspeed (they could go from Earth to Saturn in minutes) and their hyperdrives are capable of moving the ship 32,000 times the speed of light.
quote: (post)
Originally posted by FinalAnswer
From what I remember, would give the Mass Effect universe a good fight.

EDIT: As far as individual races, without any intervention, the Goa'uld could probably conquer most everyone except maybe the council races and the Batarians.

Not counting Reapers because lol.

Aren't the Council Races pretty much all the important ones?


__________________

“Where the longleaf pines are whispering
to him who loved them so.
Where the faint murmurs now dwindling
echo o’er tide and shore."

-A Grave Epitaph in Santa Rosa County, Florida; I wish I could remember the man's name.

Old Post Mar 19th, 2013 06:27 PM
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FinalAnswer
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The Humans, Turians, Salarians and Asari are the only members of Council space that have a military worth speaking of, the Krogan don't count because they were devastated by the genophage and have no ships. The Batarians have a military about on par with Humanity's, but aren't part of Council space.

And I suppose the Quarians have the best fleet in the galaxy, but have weak ground forces.

I forgot about the Geth though, they would probably be the biggest straight up challenge for the Goa'uld, if they were facing the entire collective.


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Old Post Mar 19th, 2013 07:09 PM
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Omega Vision
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by FinalAnswer
The Humans, Turians, Salarians and Asari are the only members of Council space that have a military worth speaking of, the Krogan don't count because they were devastated by the genophage and have no ships. The Batarians have a military about on par with Humanity's, but aren't part of Council space.

And I suppose the Quarians have the best fleet in the galaxy, but have weak ground forces.

I forgot about the Geth though, they would probably be the biggest straight up challenge for the Goa'uld, if they were facing the entire collective.

Are the Geth anything like the Replicators? Because the Replicators wiped out the Goa'uld Empire in a matter of a few days when they invaded the Milky Way. Though, I suppose the Replicators are the most powerful force in the Stargate Verse not counting ascended beings or the Pre-Ascended Ancients.


__________________

“Where the longleaf pines are whispering
to him who loved them so.
Where the faint murmurs now dwindling
echo o’er tide and shore."

-A Grave Epitaph in Santa Rosa County, Florida; I wish I could remember the man's name.

Old Post Mar 19th, 2013 07:28 PM
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FinalAnswer
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I don't recall much, but I don't think they act in the same manner as the Replicators.

Copied from Mass Effect wiki:

quote:

Military:

The key element of geth warfare is surprise. Their sudden and unexpected return from beyond the Veil after three centuries was typical. Shepard describes the geth as perfect ambushers—"they don't move, they don't make noise, they don't even breathe." Their freedom from the need to eat or sleep allows the geth to leave dormant garrison units in ambush at key positions, and the fact they don't feel pain allows them to drop units directly onto the battlefield from high altitudes. Geth can even be packed tightly into crates and left in storage, shutting down their power sources to stay undetected. A tactic particularly favoured by the geth is to set "distress signals" and then ambush the rescuers; they also turned the freighter MSV Cornucopia into a drifting trap.

In combat, geth units show little sense of self-preservation. Because geth programs can share memories and files with extreme ease, the experiences of individual geth programs are not lost when a platform is destroyed and archived versions of programs can be downloaded into new bodies. As geth programs are functionally immortal, they place little value on platforms and will expend thousands of units to take an enemy position, which was commonly experienced by the quarians during the Morning War. For this reason, geth are willing to engage in seemingly-suicidal actions like boarding a ship, engineering it to crash, and then remaining on board to ensure the ship goes down.

Heretic geth use psychological warfare on the battlefield with dragon's teeth, a Reaper implement. These implements pierce the bodies of dead soldiers, turning muscle tissue into synthetic material, creating a zombie-like monster called a Husk. This severely lowers morale, as their enemy now has to kill fallen comrades.

When geth shut down, they fry their memory cores as a defensive measure, which is probably why geth haven't been successfully captured for study. However, Tali'Zorah nar Rayya was able to retrieve some of the data cache from a deactivated geth, using her quarian tech expertise and quick decisiveness.

Geth weapons and armor are of extremely high quality but are difficult to find—a Geth Armory license allows Shepard to buy them. Their weapons are pulse based. These weapons are among the most powerful in the game and ideal for Shepard's team.

Despite preferring stealth and cutting edge technology to neutralize their enemies, the geth are extremely numerous, and are well capable of building a much larger force than they have. They have massive fleets and the largest infantry corps in the galaxy.

Typical geth groundside deployment was done by physically - and literally - dropping geth platforms either straight from orbit or from dropships, without using any velocity-reduction method. Thanks to the software nature of the geth, physical platforms are merely vessels to them, so geth deployment can do away with the likes of drop pods, space on dropships can be maximally utilized by storing platforms and armatures in their compact forms, procedures like landing approach and the need of relatively safe drop zones for deployment - thus, geth plaforms either deployed via geth dropship while it was doing a strafing run, or drop direct from orbit, slam smack right into the thickest of the battles and get into the fight before dust from the impact even settled.

Best size estimates on a single geth fleet (the one around Charoum to be specific) range from 5,000 to 10,000 ships with unknown armament. These fleets include dreadnoughts, dropships, cruisers, and fighters. Since the geth are not limited by the demands for rest, wages, or autonomy that organic workforces require, they are limited only by time and raw materials in what they can construct, allowing for the creation of such massive fleets. In addition, the geth are not restricted by the Treaty of Farixen and other Citadel regulations in building their ships. Geth dreadnoughts can exceed the size of Alliance dreadnoughts by as much as 30%, and utilize more expensive and energy-demanding ultraviolet antiship lasers as opposed to the cheaper infrared antiship lasers employed by most organic built ships.


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Old Post Mar 19th, 2013 07:35 PM
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ArtificialGlory
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Omega Vision
Are there any Babylon 5 fans here? At what level are the Babylon 5 factions?


Babylon 5 factions aren't much except for the First Ones, who are quite powerful. I think they could beat the Goa'uld handily.


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Old Post Mar 19th, 2013 07:52 PM
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Omega Vision
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Do you have any idea of the scale of the Geth's fleet? Because individual System Lords had hundreds of ships, and there were over a dozen System Lords at any given time, with the top dogs (Ba'al, Cronus, Ra, Sokar, Anubis, Apophis, Heru'ur) having more than the average number. After the fall of the Goa'uld, the Free Jaffa Nation was able to send ten Ha'taks to attempt to stop the incursion of the Ori Fleet, and this was done reluctantly, implying that they sent a token force. Keep in mind that this is after massive numbers of the ships were destroyed by infighting and the Replicator invasion.


__________________

“Where the longleaf pines are whispering
to him who loved them so.
Where the faint murmurs now dwindling
echo o’er tide and shore."

-A Grave Epitaph in Santa Rosa County, Florida; I wish I could remember the man's name.

Old Post Mar 19th, 2013 08:06 PM
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FinalAnswer
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No precise numbers, but a single geth fleet orbiting around the planet of Chaorum was estimated to be between 5000 and 10000, though I would suspect most of these would be mere fighters and dropships. I would assume that something like a tenth of those numbers would be the number of dreadnoughts, cruisers, frigates, ect.

There are several other planets the Geth occupy, so several times those numbers, with the bulk of their numbers, I assume, located around their "home" planet of Rannoch.


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Old Post Mar 19th, 2013 08:31 PM
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SevenShackles
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Omega Vision
Do you have any idea of the scale of the Geth's fleet? Because individual System Lords had hundreds of ships, and there were over a dozen System Lords at any given time, with the top dogs (Ba'al, Cronus, Ra, Sokar, Anubis, Apophis, Heru'ur) having more than the average number. After the fall of the Goa'uld, the Free Jaffa Nation was able to send ten Ha'taks to attempt to stop the incursion of the Ori Fleet, and this was done reluctantly, implying that they sent a token force. Keep in mind that this is after massive numbers of the ships were destroyed by infighting and the Replicator invasion.


Not sure of exact numbers but They share a hive mind of sorts and once their bodies are destroyed they simply upload into a new one with all knowledge/exp up till the death of their last body preserved and shared amongst the collective.
They also have sub types and high hacking/interfacing capability.

quote:

Sub-types
Over time, the geth have evolved into numerous sub-forms, ranging from the diminutive but highly agile Geth Hoppers, to the gigantic, lumbering Geth Armatures. All of these platforms are shielded and capable of regenerating their kinetic barriers. The geth also utilize turrets and drones (rocket, assault, recon and repair drones, specifically). It isn't clear whether these are also AIs, in the same way Geth Armatures are not just tanks but platforms for geth programs themselves, or simply controlled by the geth.
Geth subtypes include:

Geth Armature - Anti-personnel light walkers capable of launching geth siege pulses. Also possesses machine-guns, heavy armour and shields.
Geth Colossus - Geth heavy walkers capable of launching devastating siege pulse attacks and machine gun attacks. Extremely strong armour and shields.
Geth Destroyer - Equipped with Geth Pulse Shotguns and strong shielding. Specialised for close quarters combat, have the ability to charge, melee, and can utilize Carnage. They can also be equipped with flamethrowers or rocket launchers.
Geth Dreadnought - Flagships of the geth fleets. They are both larger and better equipped than their organic counterparts, utilizing longer, more powerful main guns and more energy-intensive ultraviolent lasers for their point defense systems.
Geth Dropship - Geth frigates that also serve as troop transports and close air support. Extremely resilient against ground vehicle fire, though fairly vulnerable to fire from other frigates and cruisers.
Geth Hopper - Cyberwarfare and ambush platforms, capable of sabotage, overload, and radar jamming. Attacks using the geth sniper beam. Lightly shielded.
Geth Hunter - Stealth troops armed with shotguns and shielding. They possess tactical cloaking devices.
Geth Juggernaut - Similar to Geth Primes. Equipped with Geth Pulse Rifles and able to launch distortion rockets. Heavily shielded and very resilient.
Geth Prime - Elite geth units equipped with heavy weaponry. They possess very strong shields, heavy armor, tech abilities and are extremely resilient. They also improve combat skills of nearby geth and are capable of jamming radar.
Geth Pyro - Geth units that are highly dangerous in close quarters. Equipped with flamethrowers, shielding and heavy armor. Very slow and harmless at distance, but highly resilient and deadly in close range.
Geth Rocket Trooper - Anti-armor/anti-air infantry. Equipped with rocket launchers and shielding.
Geth Shock Trooper - Advanced Geth Troopers armed with the Geth Pulse Rifle, Geth Barriers, and Carnage.
Geth Sniper - Armed with Geth Sniper Rifles and shielding. Capable of using assassination, specialised for long-range combat. Capable of jamming radar.
Geth Trooper - Standard geth troops equipped with Geth Pulse Rifles, Geth Barriers, and capable of recharging shields via the Geth Shield Boost ability.
History Edit


And more on their military

quote:

Military Edit

The key element of geth warfare is surprise. Their sudden and unexpected return from beyond the Veil after three centuries was typical. Shepard describes the geth as perfect ambushers—"they don't move, they don't make noise, they don't even breathe." Their freedom from the need to eat or sleep allows the geth to leave dormant garrison units in ambush at key positions, and the fact they don't feel pain allows them to drop units directly onto the battlefield from high altitudes. Geth can even be packed tightly into crates and left in storage, shutting down their power sources to stay undetected. A tactic particularly favoured by the geth is to set "distress signals" and then ambush the rescuers; they also turned the freighter MSV Cornucopia into a drifting trap.
In combat, geth units show little sense of self-preservation. Because geth programs can share memories and files with extreme ease, the experiences of individual geth programs are not lost when a platform is destroyed and archived versions of programs can be downloaded into new bodies. As geth programs are functionally immortal, they place little value on platforms and will expend thousands of units to take an enemy position, which was commonly experienced by the quarians during the Morning War. For this reason, geth are willing to engage in seemingly-suicidal actions like boarding a ship, engineering it to crash, and then remaining on board to ensure the ship goes down.

Heretic geth use psychological warfare on the battlefield with dragon's teeth, a Reaper implement. These implements pierce the bodies of dead soldiers, turning muscle tissue into synthetic material, creating a zombie-like monster called a Husk. This severely lowers morale, as their enemy now has to kill fallen comrades.

When geth shut down, they fry their memory cores as a defensive measure, which is probably why geth haven't been successfully captured for study. However, Tali'Zorah nar Rayya was able to retrieve some of the data cache from a deactivated geth, using her quarian tech expertise and quick decisiveness.

Geth weapons and armor are of extremely high quality but are difficult to find—a Geth Armory license allows Shepard to buy them. Their weapons are pulse based. These weapons are among the most powerful in the game and ideal for Shepard's team.

Despite preferring stealth and cutting edge technology to neutralize their enemies, the geth are extremely numerous, and are well capable of building a much larger force than they have. They have massive fleets and the largest infantry corps in the galaxy.

Typical geth groundside deployment was done by physically - and literally - dropping geth platforms either straight from orbit or from dropships, without using any velocity-reduction method. Thanks to the software nature of the geth, physical platforms are merely vessels to them, so geth deployment can do away with the likes of drop pods, space on dropships can be maximally utilized by storing platforms and armatures in their compact forms, procedures like landing approach and the need of relatively safe drop zones for deployment - thus, geth plaforms either deployed via geth dropship while it was doing a strafing run, or drop direct from orbit, slam smack right into the thickest of the battles and get into the fight before dust from the impact even settled.

Best size estimates on a single geth fleet (the one around Charoum to be specific) range from 5,000 to 10,000 ships with unknown armament. These fleets include dreadnoughts, dropships, cruisers, and fighters. Since the geth are not limited by the demands for rest, wages, or autonomy that organic workforces require, they are limited only by time and raw materials in what they can construct, allowing for the creation of such massive fleets. In addition, the geth are not restricted by the Treaty of Farixen and other Citadel regulations in building their ships. Geth dreadnoughts can exceed the size of Alliance dreadnoughts by as much as 30%, and utilize more expensive and energy-demanding ultraviolet antiship lasers as opposed to the cheaper infrared antiship lasers employed by most organic built ships.


I put in bold the only number tally of a single geth fleet I saw when I gave it a quick read threw. You can ignore the mentions of reaper tech as normal non heretic geth wouldn't use it. (as far as I know)


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Old Post Mar 19th, 2013 08:53 PM
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Charlotte DeBel
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The funny things about Goa'uld is that their space fleet is better than 95% of everything in ME-verse, but in the land fighths... Jaffa are maybe the most jobber soldiers ever.
So in Starcraft and ME Goa\ulds will be able to put a decent space fights but will be horribly owned on the planet surface.


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Old Post Mar 24th, 2013 06:28 PM
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Omega Vision
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel
The funny things about Goa'uld is that their space fleet is better than 95% of everything in ME-verse, but in the land fighths... Jaffa are maybe the most jobber soldiers ever.
So in Starcraft and ME Goa\ulds will be able to put a decent space fights but will be horribly owned on the planet surface.

Rebel Jaffa were pretty badass. So were the Sodan (So'dan?). It was lame how they killed off those guys in one episode. The Ori ruined everything.

My impression though is that the Jaffa were poorly prepared to fight actual organized militaries like the SG Teams, they were more like shock troops trained and equipped to keep slaves in check. Jack O'Neill said it best when he compared the P-90 to the Staff Weapon: the latter is a weapon of terror, the former is a weapon of war.

Tell me, how big/powerful are ME ships? So far all the info that's been quoted to me has measured Geth ships by how they stack up to Organics' ships, but seeing as I don't know anything about those that doesn't help me much.


__________________

“Where the longleaf pines are whispering
to him who loved them so.
Where the faint murmurs now dwindling
echo o’er tide and shore."

-A Grave Epitaph in Santa Rosa County, Florida; I wish I could remember the man's name.

Old Post Mar 24th, 2013 06:47 PM
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Charlotte DeBel
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The greatest advantage of Goa'uld ships against ME ships are shields. The Citadel races don't have anything to pierce them.
And in the land battless... kinetic weapons are Jaffa's doom and as you've said they are pathetic against actual combat units.


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Old Post Mar 24th, 2013 07:05 PM
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Omega Vision
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On a side note, did you ever notice how much bad luck befell the Russian characters in SG-1?

It's like the writers were trying to make up for the fact that SGC lacked redshirts.


__________________

“Where the longleaf pines are whispering
to him who loved them so.
Where the faint murmurs now dwindling
echo o’er tide and shore."

-A Grave Epitaph in Santa Rosa County, Florida; I wish I could remember the man's name.

Old Post Mar 24th, 2013 07:58 PM
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Charlotte DeBel
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I HATED this plot point. It's like the writers never lived past the cold war stereotypes.
Heroic Americans save the day... That said, the series are decent enough to acquire a large Russian-speaking fandom, but using a rival SG project (Russian) as a bunch of incompetent redshirts (or Red shirts) was beyond stupid.


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Old Post Mar 24th, 2013 08:04 PM
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Omega Vision
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel
I HATED this plot point. It's like the writers never lived past the cold war stereotypes.
Heroic Americans save the day... That said, the series are decent enough to acquire a large Russian-speaking fandom, but using a rival SG project (Russian) as a bunch of incompetent redshirts (or Red shirts) was beyond stupid.

I find it ridiculous how they were able to keep everything a secret throughout SG-1 and even after a CITY (granted, it was cloaked) crashed into San Francisco harbor from space. I stopped paying attention to SGU after the first season--did the secret ever get out?


__________________

“Where the longleaf pines are whispering
to him who loved them so.
Where the faint murmurs now dwindling
echo o’er tide and shore."

-A Grave Epitaph in Santa Rosa County, Florida; I wish I could remember the man's name.

Old Post Mar 24th, 2013 08:31 PM
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