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Battlezone: Shuma-Gorath vs Lord Beerus
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MythLord
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Battlezone: Shuma-Gorath vs Lord Beerus

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Defended by XSUPREMESKILLZX:

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Rules:
- Random encounter
- Standard morals
- Fight takes place in some random, limbo universe that's indestructable
- The loser gets hentai-ed


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Old Post Feb 25th, 2017 08:49 PM
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MythLord
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Let's begin...

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SHUMGA-GORATH FHTAGN

I'll start with some general hype and sh!t; Blue Marvel identifies Shuma-Gorath as a level 8 threat, yet Thanos, his Black Order and his army invading Earth is only a level 7 threat. In other words, Shuma-Gorath is superior to Thanos, his Black Order and his army.
The commanders of his Black Order are all exceptionally powerful, just off the top of my head Proxima Midnight wields a spear fashioned from a star that can overpower the Hulk and is capable of severely damaging Hyperion, Captain America and Captain Marvel. Then you have Ebony Maw who can make Doctor Strange his puppet that only does tasks that please it's master.
And Thanos, well you know what Thanos is capable of.

This is also confirmed to be an insignificant portion of Shuma's power. It was likened to a "a fingernail scratching at our reality"
So Shuma literally has more power in his "finger" than Thanos, his armies and his Black Order have.

Additionaly, Shuma-Gorath renders Doctor Strange's spells and enchantments useless:
(please log in to view the image)
(please log in to view the image)

Few things to note:
- This is Shuma-Gorath who just barely began to enter our reality through the mind of the Ancient One, which means this isn't even his full power
- This is classic Strange, the same guy who is capable of outperforming the Pheonix against a Starved Galactus, defeating the In-Betweener, destroying a dimension, contending with Zom briefly, and getting high praise from both the Living Tribunal and the Beyonder

Stephen also comments how he's never felt a power such as the weakened Shuma-Gorath's, implying the latter's superiority over Dormammu:
(please log in to view the image)

There's of course more proof that Shuma is considerably above Dormammu, but I'll get into that later. For now the scan above is enough. Dormammu himself should be capable of challenging Beerus and is on the Hakaishin's level of power. Again, I'll get into more detail about why Dormammu is on Beerus' level as this debate continues, but for now Dormammu's feat against Eternity should be enough.
Dormammu fights Eternity; during the fight, Strange notes that both are threatened to be vanquished/destroyed and the narration confirms that Dormammu is disintegrating Eternity's essence and their conflict is shredding the very fabric of being/reality(i.e. the multiverse):
http://static1.comicvine.com/upload...5-dormyop+1.jpg
http://static5.comicvine.com/upload...6-dormyop+2.jpg
http://static3.comicvine.com/upload...7-dormyop+3.jpg
(please log in to view the image)
(please log in to view the image)

This puts Dormammu at least in the universal tier of power(approximately on Beerus' general level) and a weakened Shuma-Gorath is above him.

Another good thing in Shuma's favour is that he's impossible to kill permanently. As Shuma himself notes, he can be held back but not destroyed and his power can be drained but he is literally nothing more than a manifestation of power and will regenerate:
(please log in to view the image)
(please log in to view the image)

In fact, the only reason Strange even managed to temporarily "destroy"(banish) Shuma-Gorath is because he merged with it then proceeded to commit suicide:
(please log in to view the image)

This leaves Beerus in a tough spot as he's facing something that is more powerful than him and is a literal manifestation of power he can only hope to delay, not completely destroy.

This should be enough for now. The ball's in your court, Skillz. :3


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Last edited by MythLord on Feb 26th, 2017 at 04:07 PM

Old Post Feb 26th, 2017 04:05 PM
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MythLord
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Location: New Genesis

You do realize what a Battlezone thread is, right? Please let this not end up like Zeno vs Bill. It's just for me and Skillz to debate in.


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Last edited by MythLord on Feb 26th, 2017 at 08:27 PM

Old Post Feb 26th, 2017 08:24 PM
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carver9
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Edit.


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Old Post Feb 27th, 2017 12:23 AM
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XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
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Gender: Male
Location: Beyond the beyond.

Iíve finally decided to get off my ass and post my response. So without further ado, prepare to fall before the incredible might of Universe 7ís God of Destruction, Lord Beerus. smile

Beerusí Powah

First things first, I think itís important to establish what Beerus has done with his power extremely casually, (i.e. while using an absolutely insignificant and fragmentary portion of his power):

Defeats Super Saiyan 3 Goku with a flick and a subsequent shoulder tap, dodging all of his strikes and deflecting his blows in the process:

https://youtu.be/UoIuk66ZWKY?t=66

Keep in mind that SSJ3 Goku is relatively on par with the likes of Super Buu, who was powerful enough to tear through dimensions just by screaming (start of the video till the 30 second mark):



SSJ3 Goku is also far, far more powerful than the likes of Teen Gohan, a confirmed Solar System Buster

The above guide is stating that SSJ2 Gohanís, ď"power is enough to push back even Cell's energy bullet, which had enough force to blow away the Solar System!" Keep in mind that SSJ3 Goku could literally oneshot SSJ2 Teen Gohan with no effort.

I think this sets up that Beerus while exerting no effort whatsoever can casually annihilate multiple solar systems and even galaxies, but that isnít even close to what the God of Destruction is truly capable of.

Lord Beerus has shown himself to be casually universal+ level in power, as in his fight with Super Saiyan God Goku, their clashes were causing universe busting shockwaves,

And keep in mind this is while both characters were not using their full power and Goku was trying his best to meet Beerus at the right angle so as to cause as little destruction as possible. Despite this, 3 of their punches colliding would have incinerated the entire universe, which is really about the size of 2 universes given all of the other realms.

Furthermore, Beerus casually nullified a super-dense ball of energy that was going to annihilate Universe 7. More evidence of the super dense energy ball having universe-incinerating power.

I also wanted to bring up the fact that Beerus can casually erase beings from existence with a technique called hakai. He can even erase spectral beings. In the first video, it shows Beerus erasing Zamasu, a God that put up a solid fight against SSJ2 Goku, who at this point is infinitely more powerful than he was when Beerus oneshotted him as an SSJ3, and is arguably up to par with Super Saiyan God, as in his fight with Beerus, he absorbed the power of the Super Saiyan God into his previous forms, even surpassing it:

Link

Anotha Link

If Iím being honest, Super Saiyan God Gokuís power is arguably superior to the power Shuma Gorath is packing, and SSG Goku is literally nothing compared to Beerusí power, as I previously outlined. Worst of all, (at least for Shuma Gorathís chances here,) we havenít even seen Beerus use anything close to his full power yet!


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"I was lying! See? There's an Omniverse in the box. And that Omniverse died. But alot of the lives in it carried onto the new one. New broom--same handle."

Old Post Mar 5th, 2017 06:25 PM
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XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Omnipotent

Gender: Male
Location: Beyond the beyond.

Counters
quote: (post)
Originally posted by MythLord
Let's begin...

I'll start with some general hype and sh!t; Blue Marvel identifies Shuma-Gorath as a level 8 threat, yet Thanos, his Black Order and his army invading Earth is only a level 7 threat. In other words, Shuma-Gorath is superior to Thanos, his Black Order and his army.
The commanders of his Black Order are all exceptionally powerful, just off the top of my head Proxima Midnight wields a spear fashioned from a star that can overpower the Hulk and is capable of severely damaging Hyperion, Captain America and Captain Marvel. Then you have Ebony Maw who can make Doctor Strange his puppet that only does tasks that please it's master.
And Thanos, well you know what Thanos is capable of.

This is also confirmed to be an insignificant portion of Shuma's power. It was likened to a "a fingernail scratching at our reality"
So Shuma literally has more power in his "finger" than Thanos, his armies and his Black Order have.


Not only is this an inferior baseline of power to what Beerus has going for him, given what I previously posted and the fact that Beerus has destroyed 2 suns by sneezing in his sleep, but I actually disagree with your interpretation. The quote isnít implying that Shuma Gorath has more power in his finger than Thanos, his armies, and his Black Order, but rather that Shuma Gorath represents a greater threat because of the nature of Shuma Gorath vs the nature of Thanos. Shuma Gorath is an utterly chaotic eldritch abomination that seeks to destroy all, and Thanos and his gang arenít close to that level of a threat. Itís the potential of destruction that Gorath can cause that makes him a higher level threat, as opposed to Gorathís finger being more powerful than Thanos and his armies.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by MythLord
Additionaly, Shuma-Gorath renders Doctor Strange's spells and enchantments useless:

Few things to note:
- This is Shuma-Gorath who just barely began to enter our reality through the mind of the Ancient One, which means this isn't even his full power
- This is classic Strange, the same guy who is capable of outperforming the Pheonix against a Starved Galactus, defeating the In-Betweener, destroying a dimension, contending with Zom briefly, and getting high praise from both the Living Tribunal and the Beyonder


I mean...ehh? Iíd argue a Starved Galactus isnít even that much more powerful than SSJ3 Goku, (who, remember, can oneshot confirmed solar system busters,) if at all, and heís the atom to Beerusí universe, in terms of power. In-Betweener is roughly Galactus level, (keep in mind this is during a time when Galactus wasnít even really impressive to begin with,) which Iíll admit is a pretty good feat, (though still nothing to even SSG Goku).

quote: (post)
Originally posted by MythLord
Stephen also comments how he's never felt a power such as the weakened Shuma-Gorath's, implying the latter's superiority over Dormammu:

There's of course more proof that Shuma is considerably above Dormammu, but I'll get into that later. For now the scan above is enough. Dormammu himself should be capable of challenging Beerus and is on the Hakaishin's level of power. Again, I'll get into more detail about why Dormammu is on Beerus' level as this debate continues, but for now Dormammu's feat against Eternity should be enough.
Dormammu fights Eternity; during the fight, Strange notes that both are threatened to be vanquished/destroyed and the narration confirms that Dormammu is disintegrating Eternity's essence and their conflict is shredding the very fabric of being/reality(i.e. the multiverse):

This puts Dormammu at least in the universal tier of power(approximately on Beerus' general level) and a weakened Shuma-Gorath is above him.


Woah there, cowboy.

First of all, under no circumstances is Dormammu and Eternityís struggle a multiversal one. Eternity in this case is the incarnation of the universe, so it makes sense that Dormammuís suicide bomb disintegrating Eternityís essence is a universal showing. Furthermore, Dormammu has repeatedly referred to Eternity as being arguably the most powerful being in existence, and seeks to gain Eternityís power. Furthermore, itís been stated that the likes of Dormammu (and even Shuma Gorath) serve Death, who at best is Eternityís equal, (though itís been implied that Death is actually inferior in power to Eternity).

Even assuming Dormammu suicide-bombing is a universal attack, this isnít even close to SSG Goku, whose suppressed punches with Beerus colliding 3 times would have destroyed Universe 7. Goku was even pushing back and forth the super dense energy ball that was going to annihilate Universe 7, against the force Beerus was also exerting on the ball, (that was powerful enough to move it). And SSG Goku isnít even close to Beerus.



quote: (post)
Originally posted by MythLord
Another good thing in Shuma's favour is that he's impossible to kill permanently. As Shuma himself notes, he can be held back but not destroyed and his power can be drained but he is literally nothing more than a manifestation of power and will regenerate:

This leaves Beerus in a tough spot as he's facing something that is more powerful than him and is a literal manifestation of power he can only hope to delay, not completely destroy.

This should be enough for now. The ball's in your court, Skillz. :3


Ehh, kind of irrelevant. In one of the scans you posted Shuma himself noted he can be banished/defeated, which in this context is a victory for Beerus.

And by the way, Shuma Gorath isnít more powerful than Beerus. Not even close.

Good luck. wink


__________________



"I was lying! See? There's an Omniverse in the box. And that Omniverse died. But alot of the lives in it carried onto the new one. New broom--same handle."

Old Post Mar 5th, 2017 06:25 PM
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MythLord
New God

Gender: Unspecified
Location: New Genesis

Let's begin; Part I:
Shuma-Gorath/Beerus power comparison

quote:
Defeats Super Saiyan 3 Goku with a flick and a subsequent shoulder tap, dodging all of his strikes and deflecting his blows in the process:

Keep in mind that SSJ3 Goku is relatively on par with the likes of Super Buu, who was powerful enough to tear through dimensions just by screaming (start of the video till the 30 second mark):


Yeah, basic teleportation/opening portals is nothing impressive. Galactus is capable of sending an entire dimensions from one side of the universe to another, and he's nothing compared to Shuma.

quote:
SSJ3 Goku is also far, far more powerful than the likes of Teen Gohan, a confirmed Solar System Buster

The above guide is stating that SSJ2 Gohanís, ď"power is enough to push back even Cell's energy bullet, which had enough force to blow away the Solar System!" Keep in mind that SSJ3 Goku could literally oneshot SSJ2 Teen Gohan with no effort.

I think this sets up that Beerus while exerting no effort whatsoever can casually annihilate multiple solar systems and even galaxies, but that isnít even close to what the God of Destruction is truly capable of.


This is nice, but I'll do you one better. A starved Galactus is capable of easily destroying three star systems and more. A single star system is already much bigger than a solar system, and Galactus destroyed three. I'd also like to mention that "blowing away" and "destroying" aren't the same things and the latter is actually more impressive. Next, a well-fed Galactus is rivalled by Tenebrous of the Darkness In-Between and Aegis of All Sorrows:
https://static2.comicvine.com/uploa...to+galactus.jpg

Aegis got one-shotted by a servant of the Many Angled Ones:
https://static3.comicvine.com/uploa...aegis+falls.jpg

The most powerful of the Many Angled Ones are Yot-Sotar, Nyerlathortech and Shuma-Gorath:
https://static3.comicvine.com/uploa...yangledones.png

And Shuma-Gorath is the most powerful/greatest one of them:
https://static3.comicvine.com/uploa...+angled+one.jpg

In other words, Shuma-Gorath > Yot-Sotar/Nyerlathortech > lesser Many Angled Ones >> Many Angled One's servants >>> Aegis/Tenebrous, Galactus. Shuma-Gorath is capable of one-shotting beings superior to beings that can one-shot Galactus-tier powerhouses. And this is not the only way to prove Shuma is astronomically ahead of Galactus-tier beings, but I'll get to that later.

This puts Gorath's casual attacks far above multi-galaxy level, even. In fact, a slight portion of his power given to Doctor Strange was enough to shatter galaxies just by Strange existing in the same universe as said galaxies.

quote:
Lord Beerus has shown himself to be casually universal+ level in power, as in his fight with Super Saiyan God Goku, their clashes were causing universe busting shockwaves,

And keep in mind this is while both characters were not using their full power and Goku was trying his best to meet Beerus at the right angle so as to cause as little destruction as possible. Despite this, 3 of their punches colliding would have incinerated the entire universe, which is really about the size of 2 universes given all of the other realms.

Furthermore, Beerus casually nullified a super-dense ball of energy that was going to annihilate Universe 7. More evidence of the super dense energy ball having universe-incinerating power.


A fairly impressive feat, I agree, but universe busting, even casual at that, is nothing compared to Shuma-Gorath. A servant of Satannish, Helleyes, has created and rules over a thousand universes/hells in each of his thousand eyes, and within those universes there exists another thousand eyes which contain pocket dimensions of their own:
(please log in to view the image)

Helleyes is nothing but a servant of Satannish, who in turn is a servant/creation of Dormammu, who in turn is outclassed by Shuma-Gorath.

quote:
I also wanted to bring up the fact that Beerus can casually erase beings from existence with a technique called hakai. He can even erase spectral beings. In the first video, it shows Beerus erasing Zamasu, a God that put up a solid fight against SSJ2 Goku, who at this point is infinitely more powerful than he was when Beerus oneshotted him as an SSJ3, and is arguably up to par with Super Saiyan God, as in his fight with Beerus, he absorbed the power of the Super Saiyan God into his previous forms, even surpassing it:


Nice. But until you can quantify Beerus being astronomically above Shuma-Gorath, which you can't, I doubt this would come into play.

quote:
If Iím being honest, Super Saiyan God Gokuís power is arguably superior to the power Shuma Gorath is packing, and SSG Goku is literally nothing compared to Beerusí power, as I previously outlined.


I find it doubtful that Goku is really capable of matching or surpassing even Dormammu, much less Shuma-Gorath.

quote:
Worst of all, (at least for Shuma Gorathís chances here,) we havenít even seen Beerus use anything close to his full power yet!


Same goes for Shuma, really.


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Old Post Mar 26th, 2017 09:01 AM
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MythLord
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Location: New Genesis

Part II:
Counters

quote:
Not only is this an inferior baseline of power to what Beerus has going for him, given what I previously posted and the fact that Beerus has destroyed 2 suns by sneezing in his sleep, but I actually disagree with your interpretation. The quote isnít implying that Shuma Gorath has more power in his finger than Thanos, his armies, and his Black Order, but rather that Shuma Gorath represents a greater threat because of the nature of Shuma Gorath vs the nature of Thanos. Shuma Gorath is an utterly chaotic eldritch abomination that seeks to destroy all, and Thanos and his gang arenít close to that level of a threat. Itís the potential of destruction that Gorath can cause that makes him a higher level threat, as opposed to Gorathís finger being more powerful than Thanos and his armies.


Meh, I wasn't really posting this to prove Shuma > Beerus, just random wank to show off how powerful he can be. Anyways, your interpretation is sound, but as for the "destroying two suns" thing -- Gorath has that beat by a mile. As I previously mentioned, a portion of Shuma-Gorath's power that was given to Doctor Strange was enough to destroy galaxies merely by Strange standing next to them:

(please log in to view the image)

This is much more impressive since it's only a portion of Shuma's power and it destroys galaxies without any exertion of power. Beerus sneezing, despite it being a very small exertion of power, is still unleashing some form of blast. Strange simply has to exist and that's enough to destroy a galaxy or two, which is infinitely more impressive.

quote:
I mean...ehh? Iíd argue a Starved Galactus isnít even that much more powerful than SSJ3 Goku, (who, remember, can oneshot confirmed solar system busters,) if at all, and heís the atom to Beerusí universe, in terms of power. In-Betweener is roughly Galactus level, (keep in mind this is during a time when Galactus wasnít even really impressive to begin with,) which Iíll admit is a pretty good feat, (though still nothing to even SSG Goku).


I was actually comparing Strange's performance against Galactus against Phoenix's performance; in which case, Strange came out as considerably better, hence he's a good deal better than Phoenix, who destroys Solar Systems as a side-effect of travelling.

quote:
First of all, under no circumstances is Dormammu and Eternityís struggle a multiversal one. Eternity in this case is the incarnation of the universe, so it makes sense that Dormammuís suicide bomb disintegrating Eternityís essence is a universal showing. Furthermore, Dormammu has repeatedly referred to Eternity as being arguably the most powerful being in existence, and seeks to gain Eternityís power.


Dormammu once believed Eternity to be the most powerful being in existance, which makes sense since at the time the Living Tribunal wasn't even a concept as a character. Anyways, in later times, where Eternity is indeed an incarnation of the multiverse, Dormammu has(thanks to Umar) reached a level where he can defeated Eternity:
https://static1.comicvine.com/uploa...+eternity+1.png

https://static5.comicvine.com/uploa...+eternity+2.jpg

And it's confirmed that the Eternity Dormammu defeated up there was actually a multiverse(multiple universes being born and dying is just a fraction of Eternity):
(please log in to view the image)

This is further established in The Ultimates II:

(please log in to view the image)

So as of now, Dormammu is capable of defeating the very Multiverse itself, or at least possesses more than 50% of it's power. Now as for the attack being suicidal... it wasn't. Though it seems as much at first glance, Dormammu actually survived, he was merely banished by the attack whereas Eternity needed to actually recover:
(please log in to view the image) (please log in to view the image)

quote:
Furthermore, itís been stated that the likes of Dormammu (and even Shuma Gorath) serve Death, who at best is Eternityís equal, (though itís been implied that Death is actually inferior in power to Eternity).


Dormammu never served Death, though admittedly Shuma-Gorath once did, but this has long-since been retconned. As of now, Shuma-Gorath rules a (multi)universe that's directly opposed to Death and a ritual from Shuma's followers destroyed Death itself within the Cancerverse:

(please log in to view the image)

In fact, the major role of Thanos in the Thanos Imperative is to free Death herself from the Cancerverses grasp, and even then Death only destroyed Shuma's underlings but not Shuma-Gorath itself. Shuma has been directly opposed to death for over a decade now.

quote:
Even assuming Dormammu suicide-bombing is a universal attack, this isnít even close to SSG Goku, whose suppressed punches with Beerus colliding 3 times would have destroyed Universe 7. Goku was even pushing back and forth the super dense energy ball that was going to annihilate Universe 7, against the force Beerus was also exerting on the ball, (that was powerful enough to move it). And SSG Goku isnít even close to Beerus.


Good thing this is 60s Dormammu, who's afterwards had a bountiful amount of extreme power-growths and as of now stands as at least comparable to Eternity, the very manifestation of the multiverse(they've always been more-or-less equals, throughout their 50-odd-years of existance). And Shuma makes Dormammu look pathetic by comparison by all accounts, anyways.

quote:
Ehh, kind of irrelevant. In one of the scans you posted Shuma himself noted he can be banished/defeated, which in this context is a victory for Beerus.


Yeah, Shuma can be banished if you absorb what's left of it's power and thus become it, something that drove Strange to committing suicide. Assuming Beerus even kills Shuma, which I doubt, he in turn would become Shuma which would still count as a victory for Gorath.

quote:
And by the way, Shuma Gorath isnít more powerful than Beerus. Not even close.


We shall see. Good luck. thumb up


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Old Post Mar 26th, 2017 09:24 AM
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