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Is Secret Wars Beyonder the most powerful character ever created by Marvel?
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unknowable
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Is Secret Wars Beyonder the most powerful character ever created by Marvel?

I'm believe he was more powerful than Living Tribunal but I wonder about TOAA.

Old Post Jan 6th, 2006 01:54 AM
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tsilamini
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TOAA is the marvel version of God apparently

so id say TOAA>Beyonder


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Old Post Jan 6th, 2006 01:57 AM
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Maestro
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TOAA hasn't actually been shown yet, so secret wars Beyonder is most likely.

Old Post Jan 6th, 2006 02:09 AM
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what about the Infinites?


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Old Post Jan 6th, 2006 02:11 AM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by inamilist
TOAA is the marvel version of God apparently

so id say TOAA>Beyonder


Yea But since the Beyonder existed outside the Multiverse and apparantly was the sum total of his universe, one must wonder if he was atleast equal to the TOAA, after all there are probably lots of One Above Alls throughout the so called Omniverse which is the sum total of all multi-verses. Because after all TOAA is the creator of the Marvel multi-verse, but outside that there may be let's say the Presence, which is TOAA of the the DC multi-verse, but then be may be character "X" who is TOAA of the "X" multi-verse and so on and so on.

Old Post Jan 6th, 2006 02:26 AM
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tsilamini
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My understanding is that TOAA is god

i mean the 3 i's God

meaning he transcends transcendence idea


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Old Post Jan 6th, 2006 02:33 AM
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unknowable
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by inamilist
My understanding is that TOAA is god

i mean the 3 i's God

meaning he transcends transcendence idea


Well then there's no way Beyonder was more powerful if he was God God!
Yet I wonder still because Living Tribunal is directed by TOAA so why was he unable to do anything to the Beyonder even when the Beyonder threatened all existence?

Old Post Jan 6th, 2006 02:40 AM
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tsilamini
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i have no idea

cosmic characters arent my specialty

LOAA could be well below beyonder power, im just going by what other posters here have given me the impression of


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Old Post Jan 6th, 2006 02:49 AM
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unknowable
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by inamilist
i have no idea

cosmic characters arent my specialty

LOAA could be well below beyonder power, im just going by what other posters here have given me the impression of


I see, I hopecosmic specialists post, this is intersting to ponder, is the TOAA just one of many? As perhaps the Beyonder was a TOAA aswell.

Old Post Jan 6th, 2006 03:15 AM
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demigawd
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Beyonder, as it turns out, wasn't that powerful. It was later explained that the Celestials and Cosmics he was casually beating up on were actually just astral projections planted in his head by the real Cosmics, who were having a little bit of fun at his expense. The Beyonder is basically at Cosmic Cube level, which is powerful to be sure, but still a few steps behind the most powerful beings in the multiverse.

That's what we refer to as a "retcon". If we were to judge the Beyonder as of Secret Wars, not taking into account the retcon, then yeah, he seemed pretty much beyond every other named being in Marvel, though there was still no evidence of him working at a multiversal scale.

And just because Beyonder was once his own universe, doesn't mean he's equal to TOAA, who works on an omniversal scale. A universal is a infinitely small fraction of that.

there is only one TOAA.


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Old Post Jan 6th, 2006 03:39 AM
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tsilamini
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TOAA is the leader of the celestials


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Old Post Jan 6th, 2006 03:39 AM
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demigawd
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Not that TOAA. THE TOAA. It's a little confusing, I know, so we always have to explain this every so often.

There's The One Above All, who is the leader (but not the most powerful) of the Celestials. Nobody talks about him very often.

THEN there's THE One Above All, which is who Odin was talking about when referring to the Creator....God. They're both called the One Above All, which is a little stupid, but they're very different people.


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Old Post Jan 6th, 2006 03:41 AM
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tsilamini
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thx!


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Old Post Jan 6th, 2006 03:42 AM
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K Von Doom
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by unknowable
Yet I wonder still because Living Tribunal is directed by TOAA so why was he unable to do anything to the Beyonder even when the Beyonder threatened all existence?


Maybe because the TOAA knew how things would turn out and what the Beyonder really was, and having the Living Tribunal act wasn't necessary.

Old Post Jan 6th, 2006 03:47 AM
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demigawd
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Yeah, LT only acts for universal threats. A Cosmic Cube doesn't quite approach that level....most of what he did turned out to actually be illusions.


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Old Post Jan 6th, 2006 03:48 AM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by demigawd
Yeah, LT only acts for universal threats. A Cosmic Cube doesn't quite approach that level....most of what he did turned out to actually be illusions.


Actually these "illusion" stories came after the fact, Marvel decided to play down the Beyonder, but this is Secret Wars Beyonder before he was degraded, and he claimed to be beyond this multi-verse and infact wanted to destroy this multi-verse but didn't, due to the reasoning of insignificant mortals. Now just the thought of this desire should have been perceived by Living Tribunal but yet LT did nothing plus why would Beyonder even say he was going to destroy the multi-verse if he couldn't. I think Secret Wars Beyonder was TOAA or atleast his equal, I mean the Beyonder is not even his name, they just call him that cause he's indescribeable, but he could just as easily been called TOAA.

Old Post Jan 6th, 2006 03:59 AM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by unknowable
Actually these "illusion" stories came after the fact, Marvel decided to play down the Beyonder, but this is Secret Wars Beyonder before he was degraded, and he claimed to be beyond this multi-verse and infact wanted to destroy this multi-verse but didn't, due to the reasoning of insignificant mortals. Now just the thought of this desire should have been perceived by Living Tribunal but yet LT did nothing plus why would Beyonder even say he was going to destroy the multi-verse if he couldn't. I think Secret Wars Beyonder was TOAA or atleast his equal, I mean the Beyonder is not even his name, they just call him that cause he's indescribeable, but he could just as easily been called TOAA.



I know. That was why I made a distinction in my earlier post about the current status of Beyonder and pre-retcon Beyonder as of Secret Wars.

Now pre-retcon Beyonder was powerful, but he still didn't have the power to destroy the universe. Even at his best, his power seemed limited to a single planet at a time. He didn't have universe-destroying power, which is why he needed to trick Rachael into destroying the M'Kraan Crystal and re-starting the universe with Beyonder at the center of it. If Beyonder had the power to destroy the universe, he wouldn't have needed Rachael to do it for him.


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Old Post Jan 6th, 2006 04:06 AM
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joesha28
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by unknowable
Well then there's no way Beyonder was more powerful if he was God God!
Yet I wonder still because Living Tribunal is directed by TOAA so why was he unable to do anything to the Beyonder even when the Beyonder threatened all existence?


Cos TOAA Never said so!!!!


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Old Post Jan 6th, 2006 04:11 AM
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The Beyonder didnt even know there was a Multiverse! that points that hes not TOAA/God of everything. Yah he was a very powerful being in marvel, but he wasn't all knowing like TOAA.


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Old Post Jan 6th, 2006 04:11 AM
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demigawd
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He always wasn't aware of all things at once. That's how he was able to get tricked on a few occasions. He seemed to have almost infinite power, but not the mind to use it well. Again, his feats were at best planetary.


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Old Post Jan 6th, 2006 04:14 AM
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