^ Yes, quite lengthy, but I got the gist, and generally I agree as well. To some extent, DC has made itself better because of it (eg, better characterization), but yeah, I always had the impression DC never liked its younger brother outflanking it.
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Shinier than a speeding bullet.
I think the point is that even today DC doesn't seem as comfortable in their own skin, compared to Marvel. That the transition to something more Marvel-like just never ends, hence the constant retreat back for a company wide revamp every decade.
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"I'm not smart so much as I am not dumb." - Harlan Ellison
I'll buy that.
DC needs to find a middle ground. In trying to ape Marvel they end up as Marvel lite.
Busiek showed quite well the differences between the big two in JLA/Avengers. DC is is just a bigger brighter more hopeful world. Thats not a negative.
They've only did a COMPLETE reboot twice in it's 80 years of publication and even the last reboot wasn't really a complete one. Since their reboot, DC's sales has increased and wanted a shock in the market. It was great actually, because it brought people back into the stores and increased Marvel's sales, forcing them to do Marvel NOW.
It hasn't been "the Marvel way" since the 80s. Now it's just the way comics are written, because the audience is more mature and has higher standards in a lot of ways.
Zero Hour in the 1990's was an attempt to fix continuity problems that still persisted after COIE. It had the odd effect of making Hawkman unavailable for several years, as DC editorial realized they had been publishing contradictory versions of him. And Infinite Crisis reopened all the old wounds of COIE and reversed things by bringing back the troublesome multiverse they killed off twenty years earlier. I consider those additional attempts to redefine their line. By contrast, Marvel tried it once with Heroes Reborn but quickly reversed things two years later, and now have their cake and eat it too with the Ultimateverse.
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"I'm not smart so much as I am not dumb." - Harlan Ellison
Just contrast this with all the maxi series Marvel has don since Secret Wars in the 1980's - they all been about nothing more than large scale wras and conflicts. Only the Onslaught saga/Heroes Reborn event was an attempt to start over, and quickly abandoned. DC has done it at least three more times to varying intensity since COIE, trying to dramatically alter the backstory of their universe. Zero Hour may have been a soft reboot, but a reboot nonetheless.
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"I'm not smart so much as I am not dumb." - Harlan Ellison
I know this is a DC Vs Marvel thread and all, but I want to share this with you guys.I was thinking of doing a thread about this.But I eventually decided not to.Is DC planning another reboot in 2015?
What do you guys think?The majority of comments in that article is mostly negative.One guy even said "Quit reinventing the wheel!" The New 52 isn't even 10 years old.
That soon? No. I kinda have my fingers crossed that they might try spinning out the pre-52 universe into it's own line and doing a split ala Marvel 616and Ultimates.
If they do a full anything it would more likely than a full reboot, perhaps, be a full reversion. The nu52 didn't work as planned in the long run, after all, and I don't see them trying 'something that's not the Nu52 or the old universe, but yet a third version we're sure you'll love! Really!', as that'd alienate fans of both old and nu and hammer in the 'you can't trust us to stick with something' effect that's hurt them recently. Still, I wouldn't bet on a full anything.
However, I think The Other Problem DC has, "that DC got it into their collective head that they needed to be Very Serious," is going to hamstring them for some time no matter what they do. Right now they have much less diversity in style than Marvel, and it's limiting them.
Hmm, never thought of that. They could reintroduce Pre-Flashpoint universe.
Anyway, why do you think DC doesn't have diversity? I think that's wrong. DC has had numerous war books, a western, they have produced more street level books, since the 52 started, more magic/super natural, space books, etc..
The New 52 had a rocky start both on panel and off, but it did give us some really good books. They just need to keep it up while improving the books that have been falling behind.
DC has faced a lot of controversy too, which didn't help (though I honestly don't think all of it was warranted).
I can't imagine that things after COIE were smooth, though. That was a far bigger shift in the status quo than the N52 has been.
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Zero Hour and IC were pretty soft reboots and retcons, which are little different to the things Marvel did with many of their properties, so it's not specifically a DC problem; it's staffers in general not being decisive.
You know why they lost momentum? Because they were counting on the Green Lantern movie to be a breakout hit in 2011, expand the appeal of DC to non comics fans, and it would have coincided with the debut of The New 52. They would have had the kind of synergy Marvel has going on right now, releasing anywhere between 2-4 movies a year. When GL flopped critically and commercially, there was nothing but the comics, one new movie that came out two years later (Man Of Steel), and now the next DC Universe movie doesn't come out until 2016.
I knew Grant Morrison was tempting fate when he named that series Final Crisis. DC gets restless too quickly. They will do some major shakeup in time for the release of Batman vs. Superman, I Think.
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"I'm not smart so much as I am not dumb." - Harlan Ellison
I can't know for sure as I wasn't around at the time, but it does seem people forget that post crisis wasn't the original universe when they flip out about how the reboot shows how stupid dc is and how it could never work. I'd bet that people were pretty made post COIE at first too as people always are after these things. Assuming the editors stop being dicks and let the writers really stretch there legs (as well as bring in more fresh blood for the new stuff) I think once more time has passed it will be fine.
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Jun 25th, 2014 09:46 PM
