Morgoths_Wrath
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Marines Go On Rampage, Kill Iraqi Civilians
quote: (post ) WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The results of an investigation into the killings last year of 24 Iraqi civilians will be released to the public when the Marine Corps' investigation is complete, the White House said.
"I have been told and was assured earlier today when I called about it that when this comes out, all the details will be made available to the public, so we'll have a picture of what happened," White House spokesman Tony Snow told reporters Tuesday.
Military investigators strongly suspect that a small number of Marines snapped after one of their own was killed by a roadside bomb November 19 in Haditha, a city on the Euphrates River northwest of Baghdad, and went on a rampage, sources told CNN.
Marine Gen. Peter Pace, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said Monday that two investigations are being conducted -- one into the killings themselves, and the second focusing on "why didn't we know about it sooner than we knew about it."
Snow said President Bush was first briefed on the matter after a reporter for Time magazine, which first published the allegations of a massacre in March, asked the White House about it. He said Bush "is allowing the chain of command to do what it's supposed to do in the Department of Defense, which is to complete an investigation."
The Marines originally reported that 15 civilians died in a roadside bombing that also killed one Marine. A later report suggested the civilian victims may have been caught in a firefight. But senior Pentagon officials said last week that the investigation tends to support allegations that the Americans carried out an unprovoked massacre.
It was apparently the Marine's death in that roadside bombing that led to the killings. (Watch how the allegations shock the fallen Marine's family -- 2:53)
Rep. John Murtha, D-Pennsylvania, said the allegations, if true, could do more damage to the U.S. war effort in Iraq than the 2004 revelations that American troops had tortured prisoners at Iraq's notorious Abu Ghraib prison.
"We are supposed to be fighting this war for democracy and yet, something like this happens to set us back," said Murtha, a retired Marine colonel who has become an outspoken critic of the war.
He accused commanders of trying to cover up the incident, telling CNN that U.S. military officials paid the families of those killed between $1,500 and $2,500 in the aftermath. Those payments had to be authorized at high levels, he said.
"Eighty percent of the Iraqis want us out of there, and 47 percent say it's OK to kill Americans," Murtha said. "Something like this happens, they knew about it. The Iraqis knew about it. The Americans pay them, and then it goes up the chain of command and somebody stifles it."
But Murtha praised Gen. Michael Hagee, the commandant of the Marine Corps, for going to Iraq to discuss the treatment of noncombatants with his troops.
"He is over there right now, telling the troops to protect noncombatants. The rules of engagement insist you don't fire unless you're in danger, and I understand the pressure the troops are under. That is not the point. The point is we can't let this go on."
Sources have said between four and eight Marines from Kilo company of the 3rd Battalion, 1st Marine Regiment, were directly involved in the alleged massacre. But some Marines from other units knew what happened, because they helped document the aftermath.
The sources said the investigation is likely to result in murder charges against some Marines and dereliction of duty counts against others.
The commander of the battalion involved in the incident has been relieved of his command, along with two company commanders.
Iraq's new ambassador to the United States, meanwhile, maintains that U.S. Marines "intentionally" killed his cousin last June when they were conducting a sweep in Haditha, the same volatile Anbar town where the alleged massacre occurred in November.
In an interview with CNN, Samir al-Sumaidaie said the actions were a "betrayal" of the American people and the military, and he said he is "ultimately" confident that the matter will be investigated properly.
"On the whole, the United States and the military are doing an honorable job on an honorable project, which is of immense potential benefit for the United States and for us. Such crimes detract from that."
Referring to Marines, he said that "for every bad apple," there are "thousands and thousands" trying to do a job under tough conditions. (Full story)
Speaking in London, Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki said the killings of civilians in Haditha were not justified and cautioned that coalition troops need to show more care, The Associated Press reported
"We emphasize that our forces, that multinational forces, will respect human rights, the rights of the Iraqi citizen," al-Maliki said through an interpreter, according to the AP. "It is not justifiable that a family is killed because someone is fighting terrorists. We have to be more specific and more careful." (Full story)
I agree with Murtha when he says this is more damaging that the torturing Iraqis. This kind of behavior is unacceptable from Marines. I mean, how bad do things have to be to cause Marines to “snap” like that and kill over a dozen innocent civilians just because one of their own died?? Things are bad over there, and I believe things are not going to get a whole lot better, despite what the gov’t wants us to believe. This is proof.
Full Story
May 31st, 2006 01:27 PM
PVS
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its only going to get worse.
GO DUBYA!
May 31st, 2006 01:36 PM
Ya Krunk'd Floo
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They'll be explained away as just a few more bad eggs acting independently, and in no way representative of a war-mongering government which shows a total disregard for international law and human rights treaties. Obviously.
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May 31st, 2006 01:44 PM
Dawson
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Gender: Female Location: The South
Oh my.
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May 31st, 2006 01:45 PM
Soleran
Fast As Time
Gender: Male Location: Made of Dreams
quote: (post )
its only going to get worse.
I doubt it, "conflicts" have always had innocent casualties. Its sucks and its saddening but its nothing new or different.
May 31st, 2006 01:49 PM
botankus
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Has any serious consideration been given to creating an Iraq War thread?
*waiting on CBS News journalist's own thread to be created*
I guess people would say their topic doesn't fall into the Iraq War thread, like the Guacamole Bay thread, for instance, could be considered outside of the conflict.
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May 31st, 2006 02:56 PM
PVS
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quote: (post ) Originally posted by Soleran
I doubt it, "conflicts" have always had innocent casualties. Its sucks and its saddening but its nothing new or different.
these are not casualties of war. these are people who were murdered.
May 31st, 2006 03:58 PM
Soleran
Fast As Time
Gender: Male Location: Made of Dreams
quote: (post ) Originally posted by PVS
these are not casualties of war. these are people who were murdered.
Yes I understand that, conflicts tend to have uncalculated loss of innocent life. This isn't shocking or surprising at all, just sad.
May 31st, 2006 08:13 PM
Kritish
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You better watch out with those Marines. They turn into homicidal maniacs in a second.
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May 31st, 2006 09:15 PM
amity75
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It's all very well to call for these marines to be given the maximum punishments etc but none of us have been in their situations and we don't know how we'd react in war.
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May 31st, 2006 10:48 PM
PVS
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quote: (post ) Originally posted by amity75
It's all very well to call for these marines to be given the maximum punishments etc but none of us have been in their situations and we don't know how we'd react in war.
very true
May 31st, 2006 10:51 PM
The Omega
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Re: Marines Go On Rampage, Kill Iraqi Civilians
quote: (post ) Originally posted by Morgoths_Wrath
I agree with Murtha when he says this is more damaging that the torturing Iraqis. This kind of behavior is unacceptable from Marines. I mean, how bad do things have to be to cause Marines to “snap” like that and kill over a dozen innocent civilians just because one of their own died?? [/URL]
Ehhh... war?
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May 31st, 2006 10:58 PM
Lucius
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This kind of stuff isn't new... despite all the training someone can receive people still snap under pressure and do terrible things. The same kind of things happened in Vietnam. Horrible...
May 31st, 2006 11:02 PM
Darth Jello
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My Lai, Tiger Force, etc.
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May 31st, 2006 11:03 PM
amity75
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I remember seeing a documentary called "Hell in the Pacific" and it was all about the ordeals faced by US marines during the 2nd world war against the Japanese. It featured one GI who was a very articulate, intelligent man who had been a schoolteacher before the war and yet decapitated a wounded Japanese soldier and kept his skull by his bedside as a souvenir. Thanks to Governments, war turns decent, law abiding men into unthinking savages and we have no right to judge them.
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May 31st, 2006 11:10 PM
The Omega
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quote: (post ) Originally posted by amity75
Thanks to Governments, war turns decent, law abiding men into unthinking savages and we have no right to judge them.
So who SHOULD we judge?
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May 31st, 2006 11:34 PM
Soleran
Fast As Time
Gender: Male Location: Made of Dreams
quote: (post ) Originally posted by The Omega
So who SHOULD we judge?
Opposing Govt's that MAKE us take military action! Who would you judge, Omega?
May 31st, 2006 11:39 PM
amity75
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quote: (post ) Originally posted by The Omega
So who SHOULD we judge?
George Bush, Tony Blair.
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May 31st, 2006 11:50 PM
Quiero Mota
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quote: (post ) Originally posted by The Omega
So who SHOULD we judge?
Certainly not G.I.'s on the field.
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Jun 1st, 2006 01:13 AM
PVS
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quote: (post ) Originally posted by Soleran
Opposing Govt's that MAKE us take military action! Who would you judge, Omega?
investigations show that none of the initial reasons for going to war in iraq were valid.
quote: (post ) Originally posted by amity75
George Bush, Tony Blair.
...have yet to be investigated
Jun 1st, 2006 01:28 AM
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