these cosmic battles are really boring. Both of them can't die, are immortal, are basic fundamental forces/entities of the multiverse, and can't "lose" in a meaningful sense.
__________________ "Blood and flame and sacrifice..."
hmmmm wow this is pretty tuff i would probably say The Living Tribunal for now but ima wait and see what some others say about this later and then come back and decide
Yes, it actually does mean there can't be a winner.
Both forces are basically controlled by TOAA, he wouldn't allow them to fight.
If they did fight, they'd not be serving their purpose....therefore they both cease to exist.
Its just a heirarchy question. What kind of battle would it be? one that is incomprehensible. You cant devise scenarios like "well spiderman would sling his web and throw sabertooth around" or "wolverine would slice through catwoman like a knife through hot butter". Its just a question of "well the LT is 2nd in rank and PF is say... 5th so LT wins!"
__________________ "Blood and flame and sacrifice..."
Exactly. I HATE cosmic battles. So boring. We can only base on who is gonna "win" by hierarchy as FieryBalrog said. He/She is the ONLY one who had the stones to admit it in my opinion.
As I said elsewhere,the Phoenix is not a being,is a force.It can only act through avatars.I think that at the highest level (white phoenix of the crown) an avatar is probably behind the LT,but nearly there.The force as a whole may be more "powerful" but ultimately,LT has been appointed ruler of the Multiverse,while whitout the PF there wouldnt be a Multiverse at all,so it has not much sense putting them against each other.
As for the HOTU,it has been said by Marvel that it happened in an alternate reality.Thanos referred to the End in his series,so its possible that it also happened in the normal MU with some differences.Anyway,the very fact that the power of God is split in several different realities (and if I rememeber correctly Thanos fought Akhenaton-both had conquered the HotU in different timelines) should be very SUSPECT.
The point is LT > Phoenix Force in terms of power not who is more important.
LT can do what he must, while like you said Phoenix Force need avatar to act.
LT is highest force in MU beside Thanos with HOTU ( Thanos said that himself) and Phoenix might be as important as LT in terms of it’s role in the Multiverse , in terms of Power LT wins
The HOTU is going the same road of the Beyonder and the Infinity Gauntlet.Both the LT and the Phoenix Force exist outside the Multiverse.The avatars get incarnated by jumping back in the Universe below.The fact that in a timeline Thanos has the HOTU,another one Akhenaton has it,another one Thanos but maybe
the story has gone a bit differently,another one maybe Dr.Doom succeded in obtaining it,means that the HOTU has been pretty much scaled down to giving absolute power on a single universe.Just like the Infinity Gauntlet,which started out giving absolute power of reality,time and space and now has been retconned into giving power only over a single Universe (so only a particular spacetime and a single reality,not all the countless alternate realities/spacetimes).If you're God only in a particular timeline you're not really God at all.
The fact of having to use avatars does not necessarily mean that the PF is inferior. Stands to reason that multiversal beings cannot fully manifest into a single Universe.Lt uses M-bodies to manifest itself.And the Lt has not been shown so overpowering on single Multiverses.Ereshkigal with the Starbrand stalemated him.He decided not to confront Korvac when he conquered an alternate universe,but merely sealed it from contact with the rest of the Multiverse.In the GOTG timeline the Protege copied his power,and so on.It has never been shown omnipotent.
So?
My point?
AS I said,a White Phoenix of the Crown is probably below the LT,but above anything else,since Jean as White Phoenix held a Universe in her hand.
The Phoenix Force itself cannot fight,but cannot be beaten.
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May 19th, 2005 06:47 AM
