Gender: Male Location: Drifting off around the bend
Biblical discussion on judging others
I do not believe that the New Testament provides support for the act of judging another or condemning another. As my support for this view are the following scripture:
If you agree and have more support present it, if you disagree, provide support for the opposing stance.
I believe that all men are brothers, and thus all men are held inclusive when the term "brother" is used. If you disagree with this assumption provide reference that states that all men are not brothers.
Gender: Male Location: Drifting off around the bend
I don't know, perhaps they don't believe that saying that someone else is going to hell or similar is a judgement. And so don't see themselves as judging.
Gender: Male Location: Drifting off around the bend
Yeah, I typically don't post BOM quotes. They would hold little value for those that don't believe in it. If I feel the quotes would be useful and enlightening as to my views or Mormon views I provide them, but it would be a waste of time and of little value in most instances. Would be like quoting Bible at someone who doesn't believe the Bible.
Regret, you are probably the smartest Christian I've come across on these forums. Such a shame that other Christian Debators have betrayed you by not dignifying your questions with a decent answer.
I think that it's part of human nature (or atleast Societal nature) to judge someone else, regardless of whether your religion or philosophy encourages it.
It makes all of us feel much better with ourselves when we can see ourselves as superior to someone else in some way. This much is true, as it is one of the largest problems in childrens, adolescents, and even adults.
If you cannot see yourself as better looking than, stronger than, more successful than, etc. than someone else..then religion/morality may be a way to make oneself feel they are somehow above another.
IF you feel you are a "better person" than someone else, you have feel like you have more power over them. If you think they are going to Hell, and you are going to Heaven, you also feel much better with yourself.
It's pathetic when an Individual cannot value themselves enough unless they degrade someone else. I think that's the root to the issue, not just when it comes to Christian-based judgement, but when it comes to discrimination of ALL sorts as well.
Gender: Male Location: Drifting off around the bend
Agreed, I think the ideal of being nonjudgmental should be pursued, but it is probably beyond the reach of most, if not all men, imo. At least as far as being perfectly nonjudgmental.
Your post is accurate I think, I wanted a discussion of the fact, but I do not believe that one is forthcoming from the Bible following crowd.
Before I start, let me just say that I actually agree with Regret on this, I do think that there are opposing viewpoints though, so for just a moment I'm going to play devil's advocate.
Here are a few verses that suggest that judging is allowable at times:
So there's my bit as devils advocate, of course even if you take the view that these call for judging of others, you have to at the same time keep in mind all the rest about loving thy neighbor, and turning the other cheek, and all that.
But it's a contradiction, don't you think? How can you "turn the other cheek" and "love thy neighbor" and at the same time pass judgement on the same person ?
Its full of incidences where public stoning is recommended...the new testament however, as a general stance, moves judgement away from humans and puts it in gods hands.
Thats the problem with literalism though. When things contradict, people ignore it and choose a side. This combined with the general vagueness of the Bible, creates multiple literalisms...which can be easily exploited by lets say....certain movements.
Actually, in this instance, I think there may be a way to reconcile the 2 positions.
When we're told not to judge, that's referring to judgement of people. We have no way of knowing what's actually in their hearts, God does. That's why judgement is reserved for Him.
On the other hand, the verses I gave told us that we should judge. We've already said that we shouldn't judge people, so what's left? If we read the verses I gave in context they're generally talking about judging between good and evil. So since we can't judge peoples intentions, we are left with judging situations and actions. By their fruits ye shall know them and all that jazz.
So one possible reconciliation is:
Judge people = big no-no
Judge environment/actions = ok if we have the gift of understanding
The gift understanding being the Christian faith....
I don't think you can reconcile...you need people to judge to keep them away from other faiths and in "the right path." However, you don't want it to come to the point where everyone condemns every one else within your own religoin. Thus...you make two contradictory statements to attempt to keep a balance.
Or...the people who wrote the book were just morons.
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Sep 2nd, 2006 11:54 PM
