This is PoD Darth Bane, TSW Exar Kun, and it's a lightsaber battle. Takes place in the execution arena at Geonosis as seen in AotC, they both start at opposite ends, and they are both wearing battle armour.
Kun was a prodigy, and got even better with his double blade. Bane at his best couldn't defeat Kas'im, even though he knew all of his moves. Kun should take this with little difficulty.
1. Where was Kun stated to be a prodigy? It's just I know you don't consider Bane one because he was never stated to be one, but when was Exar Kun? And if you logically deduced it, Bane actually displayed more potential with a saber than Kun did, given his shorter amount of training, and how quickly he was able to progress, and how good he actually got.
2. How did Exar Kun get better with his saberstaff? Logic points to him being better with a saber and form that he had been training with for years.
3. I assume you're referring to the 1st part of their duel, where Kas'im wields the saberstaff, because Bane knew all of his moves with a saberstaff, but not all of his moves with his dual sabers, he was completely in the dark concerning that. Anyways, he was winning, he could have beaten him, but chose to savor his victory. Even Kas'im knew this, he even states 'you should have killed me when you had the chance' to Bane, indicating that he did believe himself beaten, and that Bane could have defeated him if he went full out.
Anyways, I definitely disagree. Bane was basically better than Kas'im in terms of swordsmanship, not in the sense that he would be able to match him in sabers, because Kas'im would be able to pwn him with his dual sabers, which Bane was extremely unfamiliar with, but in the sense that he would be as good against another opponent (such as Kun) as Kas'im would be, given the fact that he was superior to Kas'im when Kas'im was utilising his preferred weapon. What people have to realise is that Kas'im with his dual sabers pwning Bane in no way speaks for his superiority, it only speaks for the fact that Bane was unfamiliar with the duel sabers. Bane is a better saber duelist than Kas'im by the end of PoD, this is clear as he is shown to be superior when up against Kas'im with his favoured weapon. You simply can't compare their skill by using the second part of the duel, as Bane was at a disadvantage, a disadvantage he wouldn't ever be at except against Kas'im.
Bane was able to manifest his hatred into blasts of energy that supercede anything Kun has shown. Not a wave, but a blast of energy, akin to the blasts generated from Kun’s amulets. As per the narration in PoD:
“I will follow you wherever you run," he said. "Wherever you go I will eventually find you and kill you. Don't live your life in fear, Bane. Better to end it now."
"I agree," Bane replied, hurling out the wave of Force energy he had been gathering during the Blademaster's speech.
There was nothing subtle about Bane's attack: The massive shock wave shook the very foundations of the great Rakatan Temple
One would argue that Bane was tired after; however that fact was due to expending effort fighting against one of the best duelists in the galaxy, who mastered all seven forms, and spent decades perfecting his skills.
It was also implied in the end of PoD that he would pull a moon out of orbit, a display of telekinesis that dwarfs those shown by almost any other great Jedi/Sith and rivals some of the abilities displayed by DN Luke. Just by performing such a feat, it implies the devastating degree to which he could wield the force. His darkside attacks (like lightning, storm )would be far more potent than a blast of lightning fired, by say, Count Dooku.
He was roughly equal to Kas’im, possibly the greatest saber wielder ever, in dueling skill. Kas’im mentioned that Bane could of “finished him” during their duel. This would seem a clear admission that the battle was close.
Kun is strong, what with his amulets, but these amulet blasts are shown working on a smaller scale than what Bane has shown. I am not sure where Kun has the advantage in this department?
Kun invented the double bladed lightsaber, true, but that does not necessarily mean that he is “za ubermensch” duelist. Innovative, yes, but being innovative and creating a new style does not equate to being the better duelist, especially when dealing with titans like Bane.
His greatest feat in the saber dueling arena was taking down master Vodo, but again, it can be argued that Vodo was not trying by evidence presented in the New Republic novel, where Vodo states that he could not bring himself to try and kill Kun. Also, how can we substantiate how good Vodo really was? Six hundred years of experience? How much of that time was dedicated to saber dueling? There was not even a quote attributing him as one of the best duelists seen until that time, contrary to the proof that was shown for Kas’im.
Again, this is not to say that Kun is weak, he most likely will tool Vodo in a direct duel, but to say that he is better than Bane’s based on this one feat seems kinda stupid.
Bane on the otherhand received the admission from his teacher, Kas’im, that he could have possibly “finished him off.” Receiving such an admission from Kas'im definately overrides defeating Vodo.
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Last edited by zephiel7 on Dec 16th, 2006 at 01:22 AM
I will not believe that whole moon bullshit by that joke of a writer KJA until its actually shown, till then its speculation and doesn't belong in a debate.
Not at all. I am drawing a conclusion from a valid premise, in turn a perfectly valid proof.
If he was able to topple buildings and to a degree, pull a moon out of orbit, then it implies that his potency in the force is stronger than Dooku's. As a result, his lightning will also be correspondingly stronger.
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And where was it actually shown that he pulled a moon out of orbit?
And i thought it was only the entrence of the temple which crushed kasim, not the whole building according to wookie Thousands of years later, Darth Bane would arrive at the Temple to seek its secrets. In the lowest sublevel, he finally found Darth Revan's Holocron. Bane studied from it extensively until it lost power and died. Inside the Temple, he was confronted by the Sith Lord Kas'im. Bane and Kas'im engaged in a protracted duel that eventually moved to the steps of the Temple. Bane was then able to kill Kas'im by striking him with a powerful wave of Force energy that brought down the Temple entranceway around him. Bane then departed, and the further history of the Temple is unknown.
I havnt read the book yet but i will do so when the paper back comes out
Given that after just 1 hour of learning how to summon force lightning, he was able to generate a miniature storm of lightning, I'd say by the end of PoD, where he is far stronger in the dark side than he was when he performed said feat (probably 20x more powerful or so), his lightning would be far beyond the level of Dooku's, the same lightning that couldn't even overpower Obi-Wan.
In fact, here's the quote, and this is just 1 hour after learning how to summon lightning, and it's at an early point in PoD:
'The smell of burning ozone wafted through the archives, filling Githany's nostrils as she watched Bane practising his latest exercise. The room crackled and hissed as he channelled the energy of the force and flung it about the room in great arching bolts of blue-violet lightning.
Githany stood with Bane at the center of the maelstrom. A fierce wind swirled around them, tearing at her hair and the folds of her robe. It rocked and shook the bookshelves, knocking manuscripts to the floor and rifling their pages. The air itself was charged with electricity, causing her skin to itch.
In the midst of it all, Bane laughed, the raised his arms in triumph and launched another blast to ricochet off the far wall. Each time the lightning flared, the intensity of the flash burned Githany's retinas, causing her to shield her eyes. She noticed that Bane didn't look away; his eyes were wide and wild with the rush of power.
The thunder was almost deafening, and the storm was still building. If Bane wasn't careful, the echoes would reach the levels above the archives, revealing their secret training ground to the rest of the academy.' - PoD, PG 152.
It's confirmed in the NEGtC that he did fly from Dxun to Onderon, and the only way he could have possibly done that is by pulling the moon out of orbit.
No, its not. He could have found a ship, he could been rescued, he could have teleported, he could have flew like superman into space, he could have made a bring with semen sticking the two planets together. Do you get what Im moving towards? We don't know what happened so my semen guess is as good as moving moons.
LMAO!!! To bad for you if that's your argument. It was stated that even as early as KOTOR times that Dxun and Onderon SHARED an atmosphere. You wouldn't have to move Dxun at all to get to Onderon.
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If its just a lightsaber battle then Bane takes this. Exar Kun uses and lightsaber staff and in PoD Bane specifically trained against the lightsaber staff to beat that one guy that whooped on him. He even took it to the Sith lightsaber instructor while the instructor was using the lightsaber staff.
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"I don't care if I fall, as long as someone picks up my gun and keeps on shooting." -Ernesto Guevara.
Really, according to what I read from the TOTJ comics, it said that at times the moon would sare an atmosphere with Onderon during its orbit. At other times, the atmosphere's remained seperate.
So there is a very distinct possibility that Bane pulled the moon out of orbit. And it also seems that Karapshyn implied as much in the end of the Darth Bane novel. Mind you, I do not have the novel at hand, I am just going from memory.
"A very distinct possibility" does not equal to cold hard fact, Zephiel. If AC and Glentract are right, and there is nothing that says that he yanked the moon out of orbit, then it isn't going to be included on a list of feats until it has been substantiated.
Dec 15th, 2006 06:01 PM
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