Vader is on a mission to Kashyyk, when Nihilus comes to consume the planet.
Nihilus goes down to the planet to observe the destruction he has caused, and finds out there has been a survivor, Darth Vader. The two start to battle.
Who wins?
Last edited by Dominis on Nov 18th, 2008 at 08:32 PM
for starters. nihilus's planet consuming is pretty much impossible to survive except for someone like the exile: a wound in the force. so you may want to redo your setting.... if vader was on the planet he would've died.
secondly he has nowhere near the knowledge nihilus had. nihilus was capable of devouring entire planets. he could sense force users across the entire galaxy.nihilus's speech causes death and pain. hell being around him was enough to kill you. vader could PROBABLY stand a chance with his tk. i would place their saber skills about equal,so in a duel vader would stand a good chance. i can't imagine him faring too well in a force fight though.
Except that Visas was on the planet (Katarr?) when it was drained but didn't die. Maybe the same thing will happen with Vader.
Vader was the apprentice of the most powerful, most knowledgeable and most accomplished Sith Lord in history. He was considered 80% of said Sith lord, which includes "book learning." There is no way that Nihilus's knowledge surpasses Vader. Kreia (who is unreliable, but she's the only source of exposition we've got) said that Nihilus's power controls him. That he is no longer human. If he has lost control of his power then how do you know that he has any thought process at all. Heck, he can't even talk any more. The only person that we know he can communicate with is Visas, whose mind follows a different track anyway. (because of her lack of sight and knowledge of "echoes" like Kreia)
How will that help him in the duel? We don't know how long it takes. It was used on the Exile at the beginning of the fight, before (I think) any gameplay combat takes place. Big N could have been saving up power for that drain- we just don't know. It is an unknown.
Proof that his voice was enough to kill you. Proof that being around him was enough to kill you. Also, many other powerful force users could sense other force users across the Galaxy.
How on earth do you have any idea about Darth Nihilus's saber abilities? We've never seen him use them. (unless something happened in the comics. I don't think N. has been unmasked yet though.)
I say Vader takes Sabers and the all out. I'm still on the fence about the Force Contest, though.
power does not equal knowledge at all. yes he was 80% of sidious power. but it was never stated he was as wise or intelligent(if i'm mistaken sorry,i don't know much of the EU regarding the galactic empire era)
i've never seen vader demonstrate anything beyond his tk.
EDIT: my apologies i was reading so fast i missed a part of your post.
i admit my mistake in vader's knowledge.
if he doesn't,he logically fights by instinct.
when i mention the planet consuming,i don't state it as an ability he can use. i state it to point out what nihilus is capable of. and no he did not use it on the exile.
are you serious? visas says it herself. i think a person who has spent time in his presence would know?
read my previous post CAREFULLY. i NEVER outright state their saber skill is equal. i'm simply throwing my opinion in. for the record.he does....did you ever play kotor 2 you fight him on his ship....
Last edited by sigma-ct42 on Nov 18th, 2008 at 09:27 PM
Because he spared her. Unseen, Unheard attests to this.
No. He was stated to have been 80% as "strong" as the Emperor. Take context into account; GL was discussing Vader's relative power before and after his defeat on Mustafar. Unlike Palpatine, Vader was no scholar, and he certainly had neither the disposition nor the time to immerse himself in the study of the Force.
Last edited by Eminence on Nov 18th, 2008 at 09:38 PM
If he fights by instinct, his knowledge can hardly be greater than that of a very accomplished Sith Lord like Darth Vader. You can't have it both ways. Either Nihlius was very intelligent and in control (he wasn't- look at his foolish attack on Telos) or he was out of control- a loose cannon, operating on instinct.
If the planet drain required a ritual then it would not even count as a show of innate strength.
He did use it on the Exile. The party walks into the final level. They walk across a long pathway, with N. at the front of the ship, looking out. As they approach, a cutscene triggers. The party moves to confront the Sith- the Exile (your character) in the center, Visas on her left, and Mandalore on her right. The entire party then becomes stunned. N. uses a drain- presumably the drain because it causes a unique animation to fire. N. is brought to his knees, with the Exile apparently unharmed. N. rises, flourishes his saber and then gameplay kicks in. That is all we have for canon. We never see N.'s saber abilities, because we never see him in a canon source while fighting.
She heard him, and did not die. She was around him, and did not die. The people around him who manned the ship did not die. Find proof please.
The only answer to this is another quote:
There's the hypocrisy.
As I already showed, we never see N. use his saber powers in combat. If I was good enough I could make him never get to swing his saber, or even spend the majority of the fight on the ground. It is all gameplay mechanics, so it is all non-canon.
Force learning/mastery influences power. He wouldn't have become so strong without some sort of training. Palpatine was his master. Therefore, Palpatine supplied the training. This would most likely come in the form of Force knowledge, as this was the area Vader needed the most knowledge and the area that Palpatine excelled at. Vader's Force knowledge grew after Mustafar.
Do you really want to make the argument that Darth Nihilus was more knowledgeable in the force than Vader? Darth Nihilus, who was "pure hunger" or some such? (I can't remember exactly what Kreia said about him.)
you seem to be misunderstanding. it's not a ZOMGINSTANTDEATHMOVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111. it's a gradual thing. hearing his voice takes it's toll. being around him will eventually bring death.
they were mindless thoughtless slaves. they might as well be dead.
certainly. knights of the old republic 2: the sith lords. it's 20 bucks,can be found at walmart.
i'm just tossing theories around. quit assuming i'm just outright stating things.....
What, you thought a random Force-sensitive individual of no notable repute survived an attack that destroyed every living thing on an entire planet - including an enclave of Jedi - and leveled cities?
... Duh?
Again. Duh?
No one's arguing that Vader's knowledge didn't increase after becoming apprentice to Palpatine. The point is that he wasn't a scholar.
Who said I was trying to? You're trying to pass Vader off as someone with a repertoire of knowledge comparable to that of Palpatine based on an inccurate interpretation of a quote and the fact that he was Palpatine's apprentice.
I guess that I really wanted the drain to be fallible. My hope was misplaced.
Really though, any modicum of force learning on Vader's part would make him superior to N., who I see as an unthinking, or at least instinctual creature, rather than a cerebral one. He is the antitheis of Palpatine. He is like Kar Vastor. So Vader, who has some knowledge, is > N., because he has (virtually) no knowledge at all.
Of course, for individual battles he has all of his other weapons; his vast telekinesis, the ability to put opponents into stasis, and whatever technique he used to hurl Traya into a wall while temporarily ruining her ability to touch the Force.
You're going to need to prove that Nihilus lacked knowledge, since you're making the claim. He studied under Traya at Malachor, after all.
While I fully support the idea of Nihilus being a "primal" creature rather than a "cerebral" one, he's something of an enigma. Unseen, Unheard has him cutting Visas's eyes out so that she - last representative of her "blind" but Force-sensitive race, the Miraluka - could finally "see."
Why I believe the UBER FORCE DRAIN!!!!1111!oneoneoneoneone!!! requires some charge time:
Note: this is pure speculation (with facts to back it up).
Darth Bane, even while fueled by the orbalisks (or perhaps because of them) frequently "gathered the power of the dark side." He would store up energy in an attempt to make the usage more powerful.
Farfalla uses the same method- "gathering the power of the light side in preparation to cast a protective force barrier." These are obviously paraphrased.
Luke Skywalker, even in his Force God incarnation (his first brawl with Caedus- I'm not sure which book) had to have some energy gathering before he created a shield (through the force, no less) to block Caedus's Force Lightning.
----Speculation Starts Here----
We have several (and this is by no means a comprehensive list) cases of a Force User requiring some sort of prep time in order to use a powerful technique or application of the Force. Even FG Luke had to steady himself to make a force barrier.
N. was unable to use the drain after he had tried it on the exile, but maybe he couldn't have used it in the middle of combat anyway. He did not use it on Mandalore or Visas in the midst of combat, even when Visas had the opportunity to inflict some serious damage. This may have been because he did not have a suitable store of energy to spam the power. If it required some amount of time to prepare, even if it wasn't a ritual, then it could be called a combat feat without the threat of another thread like N. vs. the Jedi Order. (He won that thread) It allows for the power of the technique without the danger of unbalancing the status quo.
Bottom line:
Strong powers take time to charge
The drain is a strong power
The drain takes some time to charge
Little time in combat is available for charging (it leaves one vulnerable)
The drain takes time to charge
N. is vulnerable while he charges the drain
And it all probably takes a neglible amount of time. Luke puts forth his barrier while flying through the air at Caedus. Obi-Wan gathers enough power to hurl Grievous several dozen meters through the air while in a one-handed saberlock with him, with inches separating the two. Obi-Wan also proceeds to match Anakin Skywalker's Force-push in the midst of combat and later rips A'Sharad Hett's arm off while the renegade Jedi is using two lightsabers. Bane gathers enough power to destroy the foundations of a temple while lying in a heap at the bottom of a staircase. Farfalla is storing power the entire fight so he can support Raskta when she needs back-up.
The list goes on. Everyone needs to gather power briefly before doing something with the Force; it's a universal trait, but it doesn't really matter. No one else gets randomly owned while doing this, so why would Nihilus?
His attempt to sever the Exile's connection backfired and crippled him - he falls to his knees - because the Exile has already been cut from the Force. She is a wound, like him; he just didn't realize it.
He also had a Force-bond with Visas, which is why he couldn't kill her. The game even offered the player the opportunity to sacrifice Visas, thus shattering the bond and further weakining Nihilus.
Also keep in mind that Nihilus put the trio into full stasis prior to his attempt to kill the Exile. He could've slaughtered them then and there.
If it requires a substantial amount of time to prepare, then it would be a ritual. Sidious's ritual in Sithisis, Bane's lightning-storm with the BoD, the thought bomb, etc.
Of course, one would need to provide evidence that suggests it is a ritual should they make that claim.
I'm really not interested in belaboring the point. It was an idea, but as you showed, it was wrong. I'd love for the comics to hurry up and explain the drain so that LS can tell me how it works. I'd like to have N. as a set quantity (a 'known') so that we can use him in vs. matches. I'm looking forward to a Mace vs. N. match where I don't have to bow out b/c N. is an unknown.
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I thought there was a quote which came from visas which goes like this (can't remember the full quote)
something something and then comes "sacrificing itself to his hunger".
I am more interested in the "sacrificing itself" part.
I don't think he has control over this power and he uses it when he hungers, i think kreia stated somewhere that his powers control him, not the other way around.
Well thats very true, but the thing is kreia stated that his hunger feeds on the death he causes and that it isn't that "wavy orange" thing" that actually feeds him but the death he has caused.
Funny that he could have killed them rather easily when they were in stasis rather than try cutting off o the exile and get it backfired.
I am in no way downplaying nihilus capabilities, just a point i thought about.
Last edited by BoratBorat on Nov 19th, 2008 at 12:45 AM
Nov 18th, 2008 08:26 PM
