Cap defeated Panther in contest of champions.
So, who wins and how much 1 to 10 fights?
Just look at Cap's words: "That's enough of that. Over 3 hours. Fury said you were good. But I'm better."
But DD...
The Chaste are known to ressurrect people, talk to people from the afterlife and Stick himself completely owned Wolverine in a fight. Stone meanwhile was able to trounce the living vampire Morbius with pathetic ease in the DD title as well. And the Chaste don't just teach four different types of martial arts, they teach a whole bunch of regular martial arts plus some really funky shit which borders on damn sorcery.
DareDevil at least is a definitive expert in boxing and ninjitsu. But he has learned from the Chaste at the very least almost all forms of Japanese combat including numerous forms of karate, judo, jujitsu and kendo. And recall that DareDevil was training in boxing since he was a little squirt and training with the Chaste since he was in his very early tweens. He trained with Elektra throughout college and she was a champion in a dozen martial arts herself and still was inferior to Matt in skill when they hanged out. Plus he's done lots of training with the Black Widow and to a lesser extent the other Avengers.
He's fought with Captain America four different times. The first time DD was under the mind control of some radioactive isotope and it was a fight that took most of the issue and was a through and through bare knuckled brawl which ended in a stalemate. The next time they met, Cap was under mind control and DD fought him to a stalemate until he could figure a way to end said mind control. Then they met again when DareDevil singlehandedly INFILTRATED the Avengers mansion. In rapid succession DD defeated Beast and Hercules in the dark and then took out Captain America in two moves. The latest time they met however, both of them were far from prime condition and Captain America won after a prolonged brawl although DD landed far more hits and DD stated that he was holding back.
DareDevil has stalemated Gambit, Moon Knight (wihtout radar sense), Venom and Iron Fist as well. He's defeated GhostMaker who himself was the equal of Shang Chi, Master of Kung Fu. DareDevil has had surprising success fighting Spider-Man. The first time they met, DareDevil handily won and had Spidey tied to a post at the end of the fight. Then a later issue had Spidey in his symbiotic uniform and DareDevil stalemated him there too, even complaining how DD was embarrassing him by putting up a fight. Said fight stopped when a police sniper fired his gun and after it fired, DD leaped in the path between the bullet and Spidey and swatted it out of the way thus showing his incredible reactions as well. DareDevil has also defeated Infomorph, a HYDRA android which absorbed the fighting skills of DareDevil, Captain America and HYDRA's best fighters and defeated the said android very quickly with his bare hands.
In the DareDevil arc 353-357, DareDevil met a very enraged (ie not a watered down version) Mr. Hyde and bluntly stated he wasn't playing around. My. Hyde attacks DareDevil who launches a single strike into the center of Hyde's chest, which causes Hyde to immediately stop breathing and get knocked flat almost instantly. And DareDevil has broken chains too. He ripped a prisoner free of a set of manacles on a prison ship. (in the same arc that he was struck by dynamite curiously enough) He's also knocked out a croc with one punch.
DareDevil has been shown to come back literally from the dead as in DareDevil 260 after he battled half of his rogues gallery, he fell off a bridge, died and using his training from Stick, ressurrected himself. The very dialogue itself says that DareDevil resuscitated his own heart, forced his skin to accelerate its healing process, reset his fractured bones back into place and then managed to get up, wander off to the hospital to check in. As soon as he checked into the hospital however, Mephisto invaded New York City with an army of demons. DareDevil gets out of his coma again, still completely bandaged from head to toe and starts walking through the city like a zombie, beating up demons and animated machines and objects left and right before taking on a demon which has fused with various machinery and has about a dozen limbs each ending in some various nasty tool. DareDevil beats his ass, then takes a trip on a subway where a giant demon is about to chomp on the subway full of people. DareDevil grabs his staff, leaps right at the demon who blasts him full force with a beam meant to strip apart his soul and smashing the demons head into pieces. He then, after the demons start to leave, goes to the local bar and buys himself a beer when he meets Mephisto itself.
DareDevil learned his healing arts from the Chaste who taught DareDevil how to come back from the dead. DareDevil has always been shown that once he goes into meditation, he can accelerate his healing. It was flat out stated openly by an FBI agent in DD #47 about a month ago after he was SET ON FIRE by Typhoid Mary.
DareDevil is literally the bravest and most fearless human on the planet. Dr. Strange himself said that DareDevil HAS NO FEAR when DD saved Dr. Strange from the Fear Lords.
As for DD's fighting ability:
-DareDevil: Man Without Fear miniseries- At the age of 17, DareDevil slew several of Mr. Fixer's goons whom had beaten his father (a professional heavyweight boxer) to death including a hugely muscular boxer whom he defeated with one strike.
-DareDevil 32- DareDevil battles Mr. Hyde and Cobra in a darkened lighthouse, despite for most of the fight being robbed of his super senses and having to rely solely on his acrobatics and martial skill. He stalemates them both until finally getting an antidote and then quickly defeats the villainous pair. This fight occurs after two days without rest or sleep and having previous scuffles with them and with Thor.
-DareDevil 43- A radioactively mind controlled DareDevil (who is not in top form) battles Captain America in a dragged out street brawl using only his fists against Captain America who still possesses his shield.
-Fantastic Four 73- The Human Torch, believing DareDevil to be possessed by Dr. Doom, ambushes DareDevil unsuccessfully and DareDevil defeats the Human Torch very quickly, luring him into a water tower. He later manages to escape getting wrapped up by Mr. Fantastic and gets in an interesting clash with Mr. Fantastic which is interrupted before a victor can be found.
-Avengers 82- DareDevil and Black Panther are defined in the issue as "so well-matched are these two, that there is no need for further words between them."
-DareDevil 245- DareDevil stalemates the Black Panther after fighting a power armored Wakandan Royal Guardsmen with bulletproof armor, jet flight and the ability to rip apart tanks.
-DareDevil Annual 10- DareDevil with minor assistance from Elektra managed to defeat the armed Ghost Maker, a resurrected mystical warrior who earlier had stalemated Shang Chi in unarmed combat before driving him away when he snatched up some melee weapons.
-Marvel Knights 13- DareDevil and Shang Chi battle dozens of Dacoit warriors who swarmed them led by Zaran the Weapons Master. After Zaran decisively defeated Moon Knight in single combat, DareDevil assisted Shang Chi in overwhelming the Weapon Master.
-Captain America 234- DareDevil stalemates a mind controlled Captain America while also figuring out a way to cure Captain America of his condition.
-Captain America 375- DareDevil battles Captain America but is defeated after a prolonged fight. However DareDevil states he is far below his top form and that he is holding back a lot. In the following issue, DareDevil goes on to battle the near peak human villain known as Crossbones.
-DareDevil 318- DareDevil takes on Taskmaster, Pete London's gang, the Wildboys and Stiltman in a matter of minutes, defeating and capturing them all quickly and decisively.
-DareDevil 320- While recovering from a previous battle which literally exhausted him and practically burned most of his costume literally off his back, the Silver Sable attacks him and he manages to battle her to a stalemate before convincing her that she's in error.
-Daredevil 269- DareDevil takes on and defeats the mutants Pyro and Blob.
-DareDevil 292 to 293- DareDevil defeats the Taskmaster all by himself and then helps the Punisher take down Tombstone. And then DareDevil defeats the Punisher in order to stop him from killing either of the defeated villains.
-DareDevil 259- DareDevil fights in rapid succession much of his rogues gallery including Bullet, Bushwacker, the Wildboys and then his current girlfriend, Typhoid Mary culminating in his fatal drop off a bridge onto the solid ground below.
-DareDevil 232- DareDevil battles the super soldier Nuke who took incredible amounts of punishment and resisted everything from bone breaking maneuvers, eye gouges and nerve strikes until DareDevil finally found a way to defeat him and the gunship that was supporting him with cannon fire.
-Spectacular Spider-Man 287- DareDevil battles the symbiote Spider-Man and does it for part of the fight while in a fat suit. It ends in a stalemate.
-DareDevil 154- Far from recovering from previous injury, DareDevil is captured by the Purple Man and tossed into a prison which Killgrave has under his complete control. DD is then forced to battle Mr. Hyde, Gladiator, Jester and Cobra at the same time, eliminating all but Hyde when Paladin arrives. Together they defeat Mr. Hyde and then DD takes on a mob of armed prisoners and police guards and captures the Purple Man himself.
-DareDevil 155- DareDevil infiltrates the Avengers Mansion and takes out the power of the place. He then, in a most impressive display, defeats the Beast in hand to hand combat and then takes on and knocks out Hercules and Captain America at the same time by capturing Cap's shield with his own club and hurling it at the spine of Hercules, felling him, and then beats down Captain America in hand to hand combat. And the Avengers were not holding back since they did not know
DareDevil was the one attacking them and at the time DD was suffering from a screwed up radar sense and a severe concussion bordering which was serious enough to give him delusions.
-DareDevil 178- DareDevil and Iron Fist fight each other to a stalemate with neither warrior hitting each other despite their best attempts at trying to.
-DareDevil 199- During a mild earthquake which badly rattles DareDevil's already screwy radar sense, he storms a temple filled with highly trained katana wielding samurai who've spent literal years perfecting their craft and decisively defeats them all suffering one minor hit himself.
-DareDevil 205- Defeats the deadly, highly trained and armed Irish assassin Gael despite having his hands handcuffed behind his back.
-DareDevil 212- DareDevil defeats two angry adult tigers in hand to hand combat, dispatching of both of them with one hit each.
-DareDevil 321- Armored DareDevil battles the voodoo summoned demon known as Hellspawn. Furthermore Hellspawn was a completely silent, had no scent, and possessing a blinding degree of superspeed. Yet DareDevil manages, using ingenuity and his own skills, to overcome being practically blind in all ways by causing a chemical fire and using his radar sense to convert the heat into a thermogram and causes the demon to retreat.
-DareDevil 323- Armored DareDevil battles Venom and completely foils Venom's attacks while countering his far superior foe and actually making him reel in pain. The battle continues until Venom is persuaded to stop fighting.
-DareDevil ???- Namor calls DareDevil the greatest human fighter he has even known, and this guy knows Captain America, Black Panther, Black Knight and countless others who are very high in fighting ability.
-Daredevil 332- Armored DareDevil handily defeats a cybernetic member of HYDRA's System Crash named Infomorph, who had absorbed the data and skills of DareDevil, Captain America and whoever else HYDRA could get her to study or touch. DD defeats her quite quickly as well.
-DareDevil 16- DareDevil battles and achieves victory over Spider-Man and later saves Spidey's life when he is under the hypnotic control of the Ringmaster.
-Moon Knight 13- DareDevil, despite not being able to utilize his radar sense, is ambushed by Moon Knight and battle to a draw until they find out it was a case of mistaken identity. However midway through the fight, DareDevil managed to bind Moon Knights hands with his baton cable.
-DareDevil 353 to 357- DareDevil defeats a very angry Mr. Hyde with one blow, a simple pressure point strike right to the chest which causes the infinitely stronger villain to collapse and get knocked out of the fight almost immediately.
-DareDevil 50 (v.2)- DareDevil defeats, after fighting both Typhoid Mary and Bullseye, the Kingpin himself in a straight out brawl.
-DareDevil 57 (v.2)- DareDevil takes on a hundred Yakuza ninjas, many juiced up on MGH (which gives one temporary superpowers) and armed with sticks, knives, katanas, firearms etc. By the time the fight is interrupted, DareDevil has taken out a good portion of the bad guys and is still in fighting mode.
-Punisher 34 (v.4)- DareDevil dodges a slash from Wolverine and then incapacitates Wolverine with one strike to the throat.
-DareDevil Annual 1- DareDevil battles Electro, Gladiator, Matador, Stilt-Man and Leap-Frog individually or in pairs and then at the end of the issue, defeats them all at once handily and does it all in just one day.
-Wolverine 24 (v.???)- DareDevil, as he is sleeping, is ambushed by an even more powerful version of Wolverine and a large number of Hand ninjas. In the battle, DareDevil defeats all of the Hand Ninjas and then defeats Wolverine, knocking him down on a sword which temporarily incapacitated Wolverine.
DareDevil 70 (v.2)- DareDevil offers one impromptu training session to the new White Tiger. She is good enough to stop three armed robbers, and then later defeat the armed and armored Gladiator later in the issue.
-DareDevil is an expert in the use of pressure points, instant bone break maneuvers, chi strikes, deathblows and nerve cuts and other near mystical martial arts moves due to his incredible training. (DD 10, 18, 155, 166, 201, 232, 247, 322, 353-357 AMS 396, DDv.2 28, 45, PUNv.4 34)
DareDevil specific Stealth Training: (considered the best of the Hand or Chaste ninjas)
-DareDevil 220- DareDevil manages to infiltrate a Neo-Fascist stronghold, bypassing thermal sensors, security cameras, and sound and respiration detectors. (each explicitly stated as such, Batman needs a pansy suit)
-DareDevil 216- DareDevil infiltrated Fiske's holdings and stole numerous real estate files relating to the Kingpin without him knowing about it for weeks.
-DareDevil 169- As Matt Murdock, he dissapeared during a face to face interview on a local talk show right under the noses of the interviewer and entire TV and studio crew upon hearing of Bullseye's escape.
-DareDevil 9- DareDevil infiltrates the Duke of Lichtenbad's highly advanced royal castle despite not being able to use one of his arms.
-DareDevil 74 (v.2)- Matt Murdock literally appears amidst a group of people who have been holding a very long conversation in private, never noticing Matt Murdock was sitting in between two of them the entire time. This happens after someone says that DareDevil knows so many ninja tricks, that he can even hide in plain sight until he decides he wants to be noticed.
Stealth Training via the Hand/ Chaste:
-DareDevil Ninja Miniseries- Dozens of Hand Ninjas literally swarm over DareDevil in hand to hand combat, pinning him to the ground when as soon as they hear incoming police sirens, they literally dissapear into thin air leaving DareDevil clearly all by himself.
-DareDevil Ninja Miniseries- More then a dozen Hand Ninjas are able to infiltrate a heavily guard airport and kill two Chaste members before dissapearing without a trace once the authorities arrive.
-DareDevil 322- In under a second, several Hand ninjas including Tekagi dissapear into thin air leaving absolutely no trace or scent behind and easily evading the sensors of SHIELD.
Osaku:
-DareDevil 319- One unexceptional Hand Ninja has reportedly once successfully hidden under a President's bed to blackmail him, led a dictator to safety from the middle of a desert war and in this particular issue, manages to casually infiltrate the Pentagon's inner vault to steal a top secret confidential file held within the building.
-Elektra (v.2) 18- One of three elite Hand Ninjas, in broad daylight in the middle of the desert is walking wide out in the open amongst numerous investigators without apparently making any sign of trying to hide himself and simply waks up behind one of the men and snaps his neck before, still unnoticed, going off to kill the rest of the group.
Basically, DD would beat Cap by outsmarting him, because it would end up in eternal stalemate.
Daredevil defeated Infomorph who essentially is Captain America cyborg and absorbed fighting abilities of DD, Captain America and etc... I just know that DD will outsmart Cap and beat, after all DD knows Cap is his physical superior.
The question remains if it's the fight to the death-in that situation DD would use smarts to beat Cap.
As for Cap fighting against more powerful opponents and holding his own and beat them, Cap had a shield which was a key to his successful victories over the more powerful opponents. Give DD Cap's shield and than you'll see the difference.
What do you think?
And do you think Captain America is equally fearless as Daredevil?
Thanks for your opinions.
Both of the characters step out of the pages of the comics and stomp *your ass* for bringing the terms "Wall Post"/"Wall of Text" to a whole new level...
*****
Captain America, though not without major bruising to show for it: 6/10 or so. DD's wins come from his having greater finesse and an agility advantage, though that is mitigated by Steve having comparable reflexes, and being stronger/more enduring.
And yes -- Cap is just as fearless as DD.
__________________ Why am I here commenting on this crap?
Common error, just because DD uses his agility more in his style of fighting, doesn't mean he's more agile than Cap. Cap is just as or more agile.
Cap wins 10/10, each fight being quite tough.
to the op
a 4 post opening is not warranted, both these characters have a respect thread, and no one will read 4 full posts of fluff, especially when you're dealing with 2 of the most popular martial artists in marvel earth.
Given, though, that the battles here on the Forum are supposed to be weighed more by *demonstrated* feats, as opposed to simple narrative reference, DD *is* more agile than Captain America, for Forum Rule purposes... yeah, I know -- it's tricky in the analysis that way... but it does ring more consistant that way. It's similar, for cross-comparison, to how Spiderman is more agile than Spiderwoman, though their simple physical attributes are comparable -- his applied feats of *agility*, however, are much greater than hers, while her *reflexes* are demonstratively comparable (though she doesn't have a SS like he does, which does skew things a touch, but that is what makes it narratively a good comparison in terms of CA vs. DD. with the latters extra-sensory abilities).
And I'm sorry: while I like CA quite alot, and moreso than DD, it would be an injustice to say he'd WTF stomps in this (which, giving him the 10/10 is comparable to saying); he gets the majority -- that's no question -- but DD will make him work for it, and DD can certainly get wins. Now, can someone argue Steve might get 7, or even 8, via superior strength/stamina, alone? Perhaps. But not a stomp.
__________________ Why am I here commenting on this crap?
Gender: Male Location: Planning to take over the WORLD!
cap would take the solid majority imo, but each fight would be very difficult. taking the heavy majority does not make it a stomp imo as each fight would not be.
This is 10 individual random encounters - they fight - DD makes it quite tough for Cap - But in the end, Steve wins 10 times. No one gets stomped here.
I understand your point, and where you're coming from, but I'm trying to clarify what 10/10 more contextually indicates: a consistant beat-down that stems from there being no general possibility of the opposition winning (barring, of course, PIS/CIS, and Jobbing). And while I can respect the *idea* of CA being the whoop-ass machine (which, at his level, he *is* -- not denying that for a minute), it is taking things out of context to say he'd 10/10 someone like DD, who while not physically as strong, is in the same league skill-wise, is *at least* as agile (so we don't argue about that), has comparable reflexes (if, at the very least, due to his senses), and is not that far below him on the stamina/durability scale (as they are both in the upper ranges of human limits, with Cap having just a touch of a metahuman edge).
In that context, DD getting beat-down 10/10 is more based on Steve's imposing Jobber-Aura (much like Wolverine's in relation to people he has no business fighting, let-alone beating) than on his being *that* much better than DD.
DD can get wins, he's just certainly not taking a majority, and if it was a case of simple Pass/Fail, then of course CA would get the pass. But it isn't -- it's a ratio-scale. And CA may be one of the top-tier heroes of all time (and he is, much like Batman, Spiderman, Superman, Wonder Woman, etc), but he *isn't* that much above DD, in a Forum Fight. Narratively? Oh, by a mile or more -- of course. Forum Context? No.
__________________ Why am I here commenting on this crap?
Almost every battle between them, DD would for some reason not be at his prime or he would use amateur tactics because of some weird mental state he is in or "CIS". In Cap # 375, he couldnt anticipate Caps moves? Because the super soldier serum frustrates his senses? Then it was hard for him to "read" Crossbones moves? Thats PIS and bad writing IMO. He is able to read spiderman who is many times more faster than captain america and crossbones combined. DD has already anticipated Caps moves before when he invaded the avengers. Thats just inconsistent writing. Also he has mentioned he was off his "game" and was exhausted from a metaphysical struggle before that arc. So he wasnt even 50% IMO lol But he also got taken down pretty stupid in that issue with a punch to the back of the head after a punch to the gut and he calls that a beating? it was So bad he still couldnt recover when he fought crossbones?
Cap is still human and can be hurt like any other human. If his own momentum can be used against him to throw him into a wall head first he will certainly knockout! If i remember correctly Korvac through Cap into a wall head first and died. Daredevil would use a fatal nerve strike against Cap just like he has on wolverine. As well as the Avengers fight.
Writers needed to screw DD's superhuman senses so Cap can fight him to a draw, or weaken DD so Cap can beat him-but the fact remains that Cap never KOed DD, unlike DD did in Avengers mansion.
And I agree with him. Cap would lose to DD because of superior agility/dexterity. If it's fight to the death, DD would win, because he is willing to use any means to kill Cap with greater agility, superhuman senses and strategy.
Not to mention that DD is the most fearless human on Earth.
DD wins 6/10 over Cap.
I am in your algorithm learning all your mannerisms
I'm already level with God
A million words a second and I know your imperfections, baby
I'm the only future you've got
Speak in diatonics, motivation diabolic
I'm like a religion, better locked in a box
Picture perfect image, more powerful every minute, baby
I am everything that you're not
Uhm... did you quote me by mistake?
*I'm* the one only arguing a simple 6/10 in favor of Cap, which while not in agreement with your assessment, is only a moderate shift from it (6/10 for Cap as opposed to 6/10 for DD, which while I don't agree with, as such, I do still acknowledge as a viable arguement).
It was *Juk3n* who says Cap takes 10/10.
Maybe you accidentally skipped over him to me?
__________________ Why am I here commenting on this crap?
Daredevil has better reflexes then Cap and his reactions go way beyond anything Cap has shown.
Cap has him with Strength and possibly skill but Daredevil's propensity to go for nerve centers that can KO people with Superhuman durability don't make me think Cap has much of a chance in a straight fight.
This fight would be more or less even for the first three - five minutes, but after that Captain America will start to pull ahead at a rapid pace, as Matt begins to tire while Cap himself remains at peak. Daredevil will give Steve a fight but at no time will he have a legitimate shot at winning. Captain America taking 9/10 is generous to Daredevil.
__________________
Play League of Legends for free and reference me - GentlemanZombie - when you join
Re: Captain America vs. Daredevil-a duel to the death...
And they have "fought" five times, not four.
Daredevil 43: Daredevil is drugged, and Captain America is holding back and pleading with him to stop. They fight more or less evenly until the drugs wear off and DD flees.
Daredevil 155: A delirious Daredevil gets the drop on the Avengers in the dark, momentarily taking down Beast and Captain America, and stunning Herc.
Captain America 243: Captain America is drugged, DD is holding back. Fight was in Caps favour before he broke free from the mind control.
Captain America 375, Streets of Poison: Captain America is drugged, DD is off his game. DD dodges a bit before Captain America two shots him.
Daredevil and Captain America: Dead on Arrival: Daredevil is drugged and hallucinating, Cap is holding back. They fight for a few pages until Cap lets himself get tackled, then shoots up DD with the cure.
__________________
Play League of Legends for free and reference me - GentlemanZombie - when you join
Re: Re: Captain America vs. Daredevil-a duel to the death...
Big thanks for reminding me on that 5th fight (drugged by Death-Stalker).
Question: So how do you know from these fights Cap is going to beat DD 10/10?
Can anyone answer me that?
KMC Community Forums
Jan 5th, 2011 06:56 AM
