Often, I hear the argument that Apple is the better choice because of the greater number of applications available on Apple.
100K+ apps on the Android market. 300K+ apps on the Apple market.
Many applications, the higher quality ones, overlap between the two markets, considerably. If you consider the number of browser based applications that can run simply because of Flash, the number increases by hundreds of thousands, greatly eclipsing those available for Apple. Flash support is not the only factor: Sandbox like apps (like Java RE), alternate browsers, processing (CPU and GPU) are also factors on what applications can run.
Additionally, the rate of Android application creation is occurring, at the moment, is set to eclipse that of Apple in about 2 years (if that's what is considered a good measure of which platform to choose). Why is that? It's because the android platform is more much developer friendly and allows more freedom in the creation process over iOS. They also do not have to stick to the Android Market for application distribution, which is much more "free" for the developer and the end user. The Amazon Market interface is also coming to Android.
Also, the two advantages that the application-specific Apple interfacing had over Android was a platform for ease of purchases (iTunes) and in app purchases: both of those advantages are gone with Honeycomb and Android 2.3 (gingerbread).
The Samsung Galaxy Tab 10.1 and the Motorola Xoom are both better in most categories, for all-purpose Tablet uses. "Application base" was never a really good argument, but it might have been a semi-decent argument about 3 years ago.
Here are the categories:
Video Playback: Xoom and Tab
Processing Power (GPU and CPU): Xoom and Tab
Application Base: iPad 2
Web-browsing: Xoom and Tab.
Flash Support: Xoom and Tab.
Compatibility with none "off the shelf" applications: Xoom and Tab.
Additional Hardware Features: Xoom and Tab.
Camera/s: Xoom and Tab.
OS Customization: Xoom and Tab.
Personalization of the User Interface: Xoom and Tab
Storage Expandability: Xoom and Tab.
Rabid Cosumerfanboyism Advantage: Apple. (This is the most important factor in the success of the respective devices: there is no consumer electronic rabidness like that of Apple fanboys. Some may scoff at the idea that that is an advantage. I say, "Look at the sales scoreboard. Look at the hardware and compatibility specs. That's right: shutup." It's the fastest way to shutup the Android fanboys. lol.)
From the specs and compatibility options, alone, you'd think most consumers would make the obvious choice, right? Wrong: Apple has a following that defies logic. I can't ever hate Apple for delivering to the market in a way that makes the consumers want to buy their products.
That said, who will win the slate market? Definitely Apple...at least for the short term. Which is the better choice, overall? Obviously, Xoom or Tab. Which one will I get? MAYBE the Xoom. But I'm holding out for second or third generation honeycomb interfaces.
1. Discuss your thoughts on the Apple's iPad vs. Android's Honeycomb products.
2.Which will win in 2 years?
3. How will this change the way we think and go about our computing needs/wants?
4. Which Slate-type of device would you rather own? iPad 2 or a Xoom/Samsung Galaxy Tab 10.1?
5. Is price a big consideration for both yourself and the market?
I apololgize for the less formal writing style of this post, ahead of time.
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Re: iPad 2 vs. Honeycomb Tablets.
I was going to address your Facebook points in this post, but it got too long (11000 characters so I will post that in the next post)
Now to your post:
This seems to be points about the Apps. The problem I think is that we are talking mainly about Tablet optimized apps. Android has as of yet almost none, the last number I read was 16. And that is a big deal, the iPad has thousands of optimized apps (admittedly many are just HD versions, but there's also a lot which are completely redesigned for the bigger screen) and right now Android is at the point where it has to get developers (who are weary because of high risk of low payback) to develop on a yet relatively small ecosystem or get consumers to buy with very few apps to draw them in. That can be a very problematic point, and would likely break a less well funded OS's neck.
I do believe in Android though, they do great work, and they are the only viable alternative for people who want a free operating system, who want control over their operating system, or just plain hate Apple. But they still have a way to go with anyone that doesn't fit into these groups (which is most people)
Another thing is the monetization, Apple has made a very viable system for developers, which can't be rivaled by Android where everyone wants everything free. Perhaps apps like Angry Birds monetize as well on Android, but those breakthrough popular apps are very few.
Also, personally, having played with both Android Phones and iPods, I must concede that most iOS apps, especially the ones cross platform, have a more polished feel to them than their Android counterparts.
But yeah, there's a lot of overlap, and there's certain exclusives too, if you buy an Android smartphone, you'll definitely do alright apps wise, like you said (paraphrased) it's not about quantity, but quality...whether there's 100 000 apps or 300 000 makes little difference as only the first 1000 are worth anyone's time anyways.
Lol, yes, spec wise Apple gets beat almost every time. John Gruber had a great piece about there being different categories people care about though. My mom doesn't give a damn whether it has a 200 Mhz CPU or a 5 Ghz otuple core, she wants things not to lag and to work how she expects, and so do millions of other consumers. You and me, we are computer nerds, we love specs, but that's not what it is about, Apple shows this again and again with their amazing sales.
I'd wait for further generations of Android tablets, perhaps some more updates to Android, too. Like I said, I'll probably get an iPad 2 sometime soon. I am excited about the HP Touch Pad though, WebOS has potential, and HP is huge...
2. I don't believe there will be a "winner", Apple will be doing very well, perhaps Android will dominate by then, it will likely be big anyways. Some other players could be doing alright, but I think it will be between Apple and Google overall, like the smartphone market will be soon. Apple doesn't need 50, 60, 70 percent. Apple would be doing extremely well with 5 or 10% of the tablet and smartphone markets in 2 years and they will likely have more 20 or 30 percent I could imagine by then still. They will likely enter a lower budget market with a smaller/cheaper iPhone, which may give them a boost, while Android is a juggernaut, I don't see them slowing down for a while.
3. I think it is already starting, we are going away from the conventions and baggage we got from the development of OS from Unix and Dos to the Windows iterations. Computers won't have any initial time investment, they will just be there and usable intuitively. Worryingly that might make the next generation less able to understand and appreciate computers "under the hood", but we'll see about that in the future.
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They are buying the name, yes. But they are also buying the apps they know and heard of from their friends who have iPads not Android devices, they are buying complete simplicity, freedom comes with complications, they can't do much with the iPad, but its only things they don't want to do anyways, and they know they can't break anything, cause it all just works in its limited way.
I don't think the iPad 2 will have any strong competition, it doesn't have to fear anything, it will sell immensely well and will continue to be burned in the general consciousness of society. Perhaps the Galaxy Tab 2 and the Xoom will sell relatively "well" it will not come close to anything the iPad will do though. That said, I do believe there will be more competition in the future, maybe already at the iPad 3.
I am wondering what you wanted. The hardware specs increase actually made me excited, at last a dual core, and far improved Graphics. They don't mention RAM which is worrysome, but doesn't necessarily matter as long as everything can work with this, the iPad though somewhat able now, is not a real multitasking device. I am extremely excited about the iPad, it adressed some of the things I didn't like about the first iPad (lack of camera, weight, etc.) and increased its power while keeping the same price. The only thing I am disappointed about (though it was clear before) is that the screen resolution is still pretty bad, I am sure something that will be addressed with the iPad 3, but that's hardly a dealbreaker for me.
I kind of feel the same way. The only reason smart phones and tablets hold any interest to me is because I love technology, and they represent a new generation of technology. But... give me a laptop any day. My cellphone has a camera, a qwerty keyboard, and a GPS app. That's all I want. That being said, to at least somewhat address the actual topic:
2.Which will win in 2 years? Don't really know. A couple of years ago I would say that Apple will win simply because they're Apple, and that's one of the most influential brand names in history. However lately I've seen more and more people choose other competing products instead of Apple's, so I guess people are smarter than that.
3. How will this change the way we think and go about our computing needs/wants? Not for the better, imo.
4. Which Slate-type of device would you rather own? iPad 2 or a Xoom/Samsung Galaxy Tab 10.1?
I have a stigma against Apple products. So the second choice.
5. Is price a big consideration for both yourself and the market?
For me definitely. As noted above I'd sooner buy a good laptop than a smartphone or a tablet. But if the price for one is low enough that I could buy it and not miss the money, than sure I'd get one.
__________________
"The Daemon lied with every breath. It could not help itself but to deceive and dismay, to riddle and ruin. The more we conversed, the closer I drew to one singularly ineluctable fact: I would gain no wisdom here."
Last edited by Tzeentch on Mar 5th, 2011 at 03:34 PM
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I already have a laptop, I want a (to steal Apple's marketing terms) post-PC device. I agree, had I no PC at all, I'd get a PC laptop over this, hell, these products (at least the iPad) don't really work if not connected to a Computer. But if I am trying to think of the needs other people have, say my grandma, I could imagine suggesting her just to buy an iPad, she wouldn't need any of the functionality a laptop gives beyond an iPad, and it would definitely make her live easier as it is so much more intuitive than PCs (so, so much).
I could see where you're coming from with that. My Mom has an iTouch, and she loves it.
__________________
"The Daemon lied with every breath. It could not help itself but to deceive and dismay, to riddle and ruin. The more we conversed, the closer I drew to one singularly ineluctable fact: I would gain no wisdom here."
As the lin I provided showed, "app numbers" do not matter after a certain point.
Additionally, I do not see why you would even care about apps that are the same on the iPhone except "HD" made to improve the look on the iPad? Doesn't that seem cheap to you? Can you name one good iPad exclusive app that you yourself would use?
Additionally, I can type one word and it's the end of this entire conversation: Flash.
I agree and disagree. I don't think they have a "ways to go" with anything, anymore...other than getting devices into customer's hands. They have the OS software and hardware there, already. No more groundwork on that side needs to be done.
I think I disagree on fact. It's much harder to develop applications for the iOS than it is the Android systems. This is a fact. Have you even looked that the API? You can make an app for the Android in 10 minutes. Yes, I'm serious. Just 10 minutes.
And, yes, the major apps show up on both platforms.
I'm just the opposite. My experience has been a more polished/clean feel to the android applications, especially if the app. is developed for the android AFTER it was released on the iPhone: seems programmers can fix bugs a little easier for the Android OS.
I want performance, which is directly tied to specs and OS utilization of those specs. I want the whole package. If the Xoom ran like a piece of crap, it doesn't matter how much better the specs are: it would be too frustrating for me.
I am, as well. I'm going to wait for second or third generation honeycomb tablets/slates.
I believe that Apple realized some of their mistakes with the iPhone and had to play catch-up with functionality and features from the Android devices. They got scared. I do not believe Apple would have upgraded iOS nearly as much as they did if it were not for Android's progress. The Apple-tards should be thanking the An-Tards for the competition. Android devices have directly cut into iPhone sales and even overtook Apple for a bit. It was such a relief when I saw that.
As far s the 2 year outlook? I think Apple will still be on top but Android/Google will have closed the gap.
I think we'll integrate computers into ourselves.
I'm a none of the above.
For me, functionality is the most imortant aspect in a computing purchase. Price is actually quit a bit down the list. I have a ceiling, of course, but it usually doesn't affect my top choice in a purchase.
The market definitely does care about price...most of the time. Sometimes, people DO choose functionality over price. Millions of silly over-priced computer purchases from Apple can't be wrong, right?
One of my favorite techy jokes is this:
Hi, PC!
Hi, Mac.
Watchoo doin', PC?
Playing games.
Which ones?
All of them.
From my friends, I here more about cool apps on the Android and they rub it iin that I have an iPhone.
And, the "apps" argument was covered already.
Additionally, the argument about "Android" being too free is wrong. In order to make it "free" you have to root your Android device which is very similar to jail-breaking an iPhone/iPad. The ability to customize the Android, of course, is more free than the iPhone, hands-down. You don't even want to know all of the whining I've heard from teenage girls (sounds sexist, right? That was just my experience.) about rings tones and desktops they couldn't do with their iPhone. Nice that Apple tried to fix that in 4.3, thoug, isn't it? I guess they heard the whining teens, as well?
Sadly, I agree. I wish people would stop being idiots and flocking to Apple products. Because they keep doing that, Apple keeps putting out less than satisfactory products. If Apple had only 25% of the slate/tablet market, you think they would have released a less that satisfactory "update" to the hardware? They gave it better graphics and processing power but some are rumoring that they didn't even upgrade the RAM? The little pittance for cameras they put in is almost a mockery of the the whining Apple buyers did.
I wanna see some games played on the iPad 2, though, before I rule it completely out as crumbs from Apple.
I want USB 2 or 3 with the ability to charge through the USB port, microSD or just some sort of memory expansion slot, 4G capable, much better cameras; precisions drawing sense with that dynamically switches, based on the application, for stylus input; a better CPU, 4x the amount of RAM and at DDR3, true multi-tasking, and a much more open or customizable platform. The only thing I liked about the iPad 2 was the GPU improvement. Nice jump, IMO.
If they gave me those, I would buy one, easily, because the Android whiners would have no complaints. Even if it cost $700, I would buy it in a heartbeat. You know what? Most of those items were wanted in the FIRST iPad, much less the second. If Apple wanted to get at least 100,000 more purchases, they could add about 3/4 those things and many Android fans, but not quite fanboys (like myself) would buy their product.
2011 is the year you will see the iPhone etc fall to Android. Nokia are already about to ditch their Symbian platform and go with Android.
Given that Android already have about 2% more market share than iOS and RIM(Blackberry) and it's about to also have the largest mobile/cell manufacturer start using its platform then it's inevitable that more and more apps eventually start getting developed for it.
While most of them, as shown above, are pointless and unused applications...This is what the draw seems to be for your general know-nothing consumer. The vast majority of consumers don't know and don't care what your stats above mean.
Case in point...My brother...Every time he wants to upgrade his phone he asks me what he should get...I list the best phones either out at the time or about to come out...He actually phoned me last week and I said the LG Optimus 2x or the Sony Xperia Arc or the new Motorola dual-core who's name escapes me at the moment.
What did he go with?...The iPhone 3gs...Not even the iPhone 4. It wasn't even a cost issue. The guy earns over 50k a year and could have easily bought any phone on any contract.
Such is still, at the moment, the power of Apple's hold over the generally ignorant masses.
If your brother is single, 50k is quite a bit. (It's around $80,000.) But, I can tell you why he bought an iPhone: he's fallen for the Apple "magic" of sorts.
Edit - Also, I just read that Motorola is estimating Q1 sales of their Xoom will be between 700k and 800k.
Double edit - This sales graph shows that Android did not quite reach iPhone levels, yet. But, it's right on track to take over...maybe you're correct with your 2%? I guess with 5 more months, a 2% lead over iPhone is rather easy to see, using this graph:
One analyst said that in 2012, it will be 38% android and 48% iOS for the tablet market. That's good considering Q4 of 2010, for tablets, had a 93% dominance from Apple.
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Last edited by dadudemon on Mar 6th, 2011 at 12:28 PM
2. Iīve never bought anything from apple, as they all seem overpriced compared to their competitors.
3. Each person will probably get what suits them best, for surfing about some folk will probably get some sort of pad or smartphone.
I personally need at least a laptop so I can play games, and use photoshop with my sketchpad.
4. None, but if they were giving one away Iīd want one of those transparent ones with android on it.
5. Yes, not going to spend money on an overpriced Apple product when some other similiart products are cheaper, even if they arnīt as perfect.
What interests me is what will be about in a couple of years time, I personaly thing the chip manufacturers are holding technology back and slowly bringing it out a bit at a time in order to maximise profit.
Apple Ipad 2 hasnīt got a SDcard or USB slot from what I saw on tv, maybe the Ipad 3 will have. The same way the Ipad 1 didnīt have a camera, although they could easily have added one.
What I would like though is one of these "kindle" things, so I can read loads of books on holiday without having a suitcase full of books.
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Re: Re: Re: iPad 2 vs. Honeycomb Tablets.
It's not so much about what I want, I am the exception of users, but yes I'd count HD apps, or slightly changed apps, because those are apps people would get vs. getting small or grainy apps. But even I would very much like to check out Flipboard and the Marvel Comic app. In addition to a lot of native games I want to try.
Flash is a good argument, if it works right (which we don't know yet, as it is not available on the Xoom) and if the Flash Apps are optimized for the touch screen interface. So far it still seems like native apps will be far superior to anything Flash and HTML5 can offer tablets yet.
That's mostly what I mean, they have "ways to go" in getting those customers to want or care for them. I do think the iOS is still better for this segment in intuitiveness and ease of use, I'd have to try Honeycomb hands on, but we have to look at this from the perspective of general customers, not tech geeks.
That's not actually a fact though. A lot of people feel like the Android environment is more buggy and problematic to develop for. What is true is that you need to invest more to develop for iOS and that you are more limited in what you do, developing on it is made rather smooth though. Again, I agree initial cost and problems are small on Android, any fool can make an app with the Android App Creator, too, but we are talking about high end applications, not all the crappy apps no one will ever look at (10 minute apps)
Not for Tablets yet.
I suppose there's no way for us to quantify this.
Again we are going into opinion, Android to me runs less smooth, even if its specs are superior. Apple can completely focus on the one set of specs they have, it's the same reason, why console gaming (and developing) is so popular.
I think that's a good idea.
I am totally with you on Apple being generally overprized for similar things (they try to sell unquantifiable things). The thing is...it's the opposite in the tablet market. They are insanely cheap, yet still have this unquantifiable thing they strive for. I think you can blame them with almost everything they sell for selling it at a much higher price as they could (though that's their business, if it sells I don't care, I don't have to buy it) from iPods to iMacs...but not the iPad, which is one of the reasons why I feel really good about making the choice to get an iPad, it's an experience buy, really, and it doesn't even cost me as much as the competition (where I have to worry that the same experience but slightly better will be there next week, rather than next year)
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I am with you on wanting those things in iPhones, but I can't fault them for their business strategy, it works, it's perhaps the best business strategy in the world today.
As for the app thing, perhaps that is turning now in the US, or perhaps you are in certain circles where it is prevalent, but as far as I can tell, iPhones still have the more respectable status, and many people buying Android devices don't know and don't care what OS they have. They don't about iPhones either, but if someone says I have an iPhone everyone in the know, knows it is iOS. If they say, "I bought some smartphone" and you ask "What OS? Android, Bada, WebOs, Symbian?" you'll most of the time get a "I don't know".
Again, I don't think you get their strategy, to them it is not a game of specs. The people getting orgasms over specs are few and not the people they want.
100 000 of 15 million, so it might increase their sales by 0.6%. But doesn't consider what the increased price, an possible problems with the OS working well with it (or conversely the price to make it fit) will lose them in customers.
I mean, I am with you in theory, I'd like those things, but you have to see it from their perspective, it would be completely insane to do it.
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Wut? Nokia struck a deal with Microsoft, they will get Windows Phone 7 for their device. No Android on Nokia.
Android will surpass Apple most likely, but Apple won't "fall" they don't care about having the majority in the market, and they will likely increase their profits. The smartphone market is not a zero-sum game, yet.
Again, no Android on Nokia. And those stats are US only. But that's just fact check, you are right about them being getting more developers.
I completely agree with this (also with your suggestions) I will likely wait out for the Samsung Galaxy S2, at least. But yeah, Apple has draw over people, and it does make sense actually, I'd suggest it to everyone who has no computer know how, as they might easily get frustrated and blame me, a risk that's very low with iPhones.
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Do you consider that good?
I personally think, it might be okay for Motorola, they can be alright with it. But the iPad will sell millions in the first month, I can already guarantee that.
Also just to make this point again (not for you dadudemon, I think you know that).
DESPITE THEIR (FAIR) REPUTATION FOR OVERPRICED PRODUCTS THE IPAD IS THE CHEAPEST HIGH QUALITY TABLET YOU CAN BUY RIGHT NOW
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Mar 5th, 2011 09:41 AM
