Apocalypse has a shot. He's a super-heavyweight. I think he needs more hands on battles to definitively say he'd beat a character like Surfer (or Thor) for a decisive majority. Since he usually acts through proxies rather than hands on his actual combat feat resume isn't that long, but he is in the weight class where he can go head up with and get the upperhand with someone like High Evolutionary who is demonstrably above Surfer (or Thor). If you want to take the approach of resume vs. resume, Surfer wins via usage and assemblage of feats. However I don't think it's that cut and dry.
His last fight was against young Thor and he wrecked him in a way Gor couldn't. Apocalypse was the main reason the Celestial killing weapon was created and the crazy thing about it is, he handled that weapon better than any Celestial that was hit by the attack.
Chronologically that wasn't his last fight, but that was his most recent appearance in a comic. The Prince Thor fight took place in the 11th Century AD. Chronologically his last showing was in Messiah Complex in the distant future when he no-sold Stryfe going all out on him, then double axe handled him and dragged him off to be his new host body. While I agree that 'theoretically' Apocalypse is intended to be herald+ level, he doesn't have enough fights against someone in the high herald and up weight class to gauge his true standing. He's somewhere in the range of Thor/Ikaris+ to High Evolutionary level.
As for the Jarnbjorn attack, Apocalypse isn't a Celestial, he just has Celestial Armor as their 'caretaker' (herald), so when he got chopped with the axe since he's not an energy being inside the armored shell he didn't dissipate.
What I meant was, that is his latest showing and his latest showings depicts him as above Herald levels. Hell, his followers, people that is below him in power is giving high Heralds long extended fights. Marvel view of Apocalypse has done a complete 360. Based off recent depictions, minus the Celestial slaying weapon, Surfer shouldn't have the capabilities of hurting him and the crazy thing about this is, I'm more of a Surfer fan than Zop.
Yeah, multiple times. "Prince Thor" from the God Butcher Arc was the same Thor (Medeival Era) in Uncanny Avengers that Apocalypse went to kill through Kang's manipulation and led to Jarnbjorn being enchanted with the Celestial Slayer spell (that Kang provided to Prince Thor to use against Apocalypse).
Gorr had differing power levels dependent on how man gods he's butchered. When he fought young Thor he wasn't at his most powerful, like say near the end of the arc when he fought all three Thors.
Young Thor's struggle with Apoc was more so because he couldn't penetrate or break the Celestial armour. Once young Thor got Jarnborn though he messed Apoc pretty bad with one swing.
That's the only thing I'm iffy about. Young Thor may not have done well against Apoc, but he's also not as powerful as Surfer. And Technically his celestial armour is destroyed...
Thor even during his young age was extremely powerful. Him not being able to cause pain or register to Apocalypse is a huge ft. This is something I can't see Surfer coming close to doing, let alone replicating anytime soon. Hell, it was even.stated that if Apocalypse headbutt Thor again. It would probably snap his neck/kill him.
Again, how is Surfer beating him? Thor and Kang had to resort to a weapon powerful enough to kill abstracts in order to take Apocalypse out.
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Feb 27th, 2014 04:22 AM
