Wyyrlok *and* Maladi vs DoE Bane. We've seen DoE Bane fall to sorcery before. A sorcerer around Zannah's level plus backup should win more surely.
Nihl, Talon, and Stryfe can all gang up on the rookie Bane.
One of the latter two Banes falls, then Krayt and the other group get backup and win.
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If you went in the other direction and had the strong Banes go after the weaker possy members, sure they'd take out two fairly quickly, but it'd allow the strong One Sith to focus on PoD and take him out just as fast, then focus on DoE and take him down. Even if the weaker One Sith were taken down, you'd be left with the absurd matchup of Krayt and Wyyrlok (+ possibly one or two others!) vs the last Bane.
DOE Bane would prove semi-difficult duel for Krayt, but he'd overcome him eventually. POD Bane could handle any one of Krayt's hands, but all of them on him would take him out simple as that.
It all depends on how they fight Orbalisk Bane, or how long it would take for Krayt to take out Bane.
Its a 50/50, but I think One Sith can do it with massive difficulty and with losing most of their numbers. Once DOE Bane is done and depending how many they've got left, they'll take out Orbalisk Bane so long as Krayt is still alive (which is a virtual certainty, as he was unkillable for the most part
__________________ "Happiness is a lie. Life is horror. The light is always dying all across the universe. The last star will flicker out someday, when it does, all that remains is shadow. And I will be its king!"'-Amahl Farouk
Registered: Mar 2014
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ROT Bane would break off and engage Krayt given his berserker style. Meanwhile DOE Bane would be smart enough to look after POD Bane so as not to let his capabilities go to waste. Given DOE Bane's speed, TK, and unpredictability, they have a good chance of taking down Stryfe and Maladi pretty quickly. Then it's DOE Bane and POD Bane vs Nihl, Talon, and Wyyrlok. Given how powerful in the force and unpredictable DOE Bane is, backed up by the fact that POD Bane, while the weakest Bane, is still skilled enough to contend with a master duelist such as Kas'im, I think the two could win here, especially considering DOE Bane's knowledge on his former self's capabilities. Meanwhile I think ROT Bane could take Krayt.
I think the Bane's would win this one with perhaps the casualty of POD Bane if Wyyrlok's illusions prove capable of spelling his doom.
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Bane has no definitive strength edge against Krayt, Krayt has punched holes through Abeloth and has speed feats that come close to an amped Bane. Even with the Orbalisk armor Krayt still has the advantage of Dark transfer, and could easily tag Bane and it'd be game over
__________________ "Happiness is a lie. Life is horror. The light is always dying all across the universe. The last star will flicker out someday, when it does, all that remains is shadow. And I will be its king!"'-Amahl Farouk
Registered: Mar 2014
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punching holes in Abeloth was beyond shadows, a realm that has nothing to do with physical stuff.
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The 3 Banes win pretty convincingly imo. On a level for level basis, the latter four of the second team get crushed pretty easily the moment any of the Banes choose to, provided one of their teammates aren't protecting them. They haven't established themselves to at all be upper tier or even close.
Krayt and POD Bane I consider a good matchup. Krayt has some interesting skills of dubious applicability (Dark Transfer), great skill with illusions (though Bane's demonstrated some of the best telepathy resistance in the mythos), and great general mastery such as when he contacted every Sith across the entire Galaxy, but Bane by the same token has more proven skills with a lightsaber, his physical feats (speed, TK, lightning) vastly outstrip Krayt's, he possesses probably the best feat of Tutaminis in the mythos, and likewise the scale of his powers is also proven to be high level, as he was capable of redirecting lightning across an entire planet that was so powerful it was literally ravaging it. I have Bane taking that due to his superior showings in the areas that more frequently decide the outcomes of combat involving Force Users.
I think any combination of two of the Banes and we have a really interesting fight.
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It does to an extent- Krayt was missing an arm and eye in Beyond because he was missing them in life. Force matters more there, but they still moved like they were in bodies and K was literally fighting one-handed.
Still, for 'strength outside of Beyond Shadows' there's 'drove Cade to his knees' in their first duel. Krayt is big and strong and overpowering.
How is DoE on his own supposed to deal with Nihl, Talon, and Wyyrlok?
Because you're asking 2 sith to rush 5, and those five are all going to be throwing offense, they aren't just going to stand there. Wyyrlok's stronger than PoD by himself.
I also think you underestimate Maladi and even Stryfe to an extent. Maladi's main combat feat is holding off Shado Vao for a significant period of time, after all, in order to get her Bane'd really have to focus on her hard.
Stryfe's not a total slouch either, 'weakest of the inner circle' still means he TK grips hearts, mutual kills with Wolf Sazen in sabers, and survived some grenade blasts.
DoE could potentially survive such a foolheardy rush, but PoD is supposed to rush down one foe and take attacks from multiple Hands at the same time? Or worse, Wyyrlok? Nah, he's gone in such an attack.
Heck, worst-case. The two rush, Wyyrlok blocks DoE and takes him head on preventing him from cutting down one of the weak. Path of Destruction is left trying to 'blitz' everyone else on his own. Four-on-PoD dogpile.
Your scenario pretty much overlooks what Wyyrlok is doing while the Banes are attacking. He's either going to be confronting DoE or ganking PoD. There's no third option.
Almost all of them have been established as being able to give Cade some fight, and working together against a stronger foe is also in their training.
And PoD Bane isn't on the tier as his later versions either.
While the stronger Banes could take any of them one-on-one pretty fast, there is a sizable difference between one on one and 4-on-1, and there is one higher tier One Sith for each of the stronger Banes anyway.
I'm not sure what makes you think that Wyyrlok's anywhere near Zannah's level in sorcery. Zannah's arguably the most naturally powerful Force User in the mythos, barring Anakin, and had a specific talent for sorcery. Being able to fell Bane with it is a reflection of her power, not anything else.
Wyyrlok's an incredibly powerful sorcerer. Darth Andeddu was an legendary Sith sorcerer, feared by his rivals who would not even face him one on one, and heck, with knowledge coveted by Zannah and Bane. Wyyrlok flat overwhelmed him in a pure sorcery duel when Andeddu had a sorcery staff.
Cripple a foe with their own fears (just as Zannah did) or hurt, even kill with solid illusions. Wyyrlok's done both, and Zannah hasn't done the latter, though she does have dark side tendrils.
And it's not even 'just' Wyyrlok on his own. It's Wyyrlok plus a backup unless PoD's being killed in a 4-on-1.
Registered: Mar 2014
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Wyyrlok overpowered Andeddu, but this is not a feat Bane is lacking.
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I think you're reading too far into the Andeddu feat. While a "legend" he's still a completely unknown quantity, and I maintain that we can't be certain the Andeddu Wyyrlock faced was definitely as powerful as had once been.
Zannah's level of power by comparison is far more quantifiable, and we know for a fact that she's an incredibly powerful Force User.
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Orbelisk Armored Bane can take on 3 of Krayts possy at once. He will kill atleast 2 before he falls if not kill all three of them. PoD Bane was a skilled enough duelist to beat Kas'im and could create force waves that crumbled a temple. You can call amp on that one if you want but even if you down grade it, its still implies a lot of raw power. DoE Bane I consider to be another tier above Krayt, Krayt would put up a good fight but he would fall. And if Orbalisk Bane falls then PoD bane only has to finish off one last opponent and I think he can 1v1 any of Krayts Possy.
All that said Krayt and friends still have a solid chance of just over running them completely
Sith of the time feared to take him on without ganging up, respected by Bane, Dooku, etc.. One of the only sorcerers capable of killing with illusion alone.
And beating him is not the end-all of Wyyrlok's feats. Wyyrlok knows the illusion technique Zannah almost *did* get Bane with, and Bane only break free with great effort.... but it's not one on one, spending effort to break free means getting a lightsaber while struggling.
Zannah better, Wyyrlok better? Doesn't really matter who's got the precise sorcery edge. Some of their techniques are different, some are the same. And of the ones that are the same.... Wyyrlok has moves that will be fatal to a Bane in this fight.
Depends a lot on the three. Either Krayt or Wyyrlok could certainly hold him off on their own until other fights are decided, to just go the conservative route.
Ahh.... Krayt has more force techniques and more force knowledge than him, as well as more dueling experience. Don't really see how Bane's supposed to have an advantage, let alone a full tier advantage.
Remember the Abeloth fight? Krayt's power is much stronger than that at his peak.
He's someone who was able to batter down Cade when he was handicapped, a shadow of his old self. And who returned, in his words, with his power multiplied. And, in turn, Wyyrlok was able to put up a fight against that.
Just because they have numbers here, isn't a reason to underestimate the One Sith individually. They have some very powerful members here.
Registered: Mar 2014
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I like how this one guy explained Bane. "If knowledge of the force was equal to an education, Bane would be a professor that takes the others to school"
But seriously though, Banes lightning is by far more impressive than Krayts. His TK is also nothing to thumb your nose at. He has one of the best speed feats in the mythos. Hes also one of the greatest lightsaber duelist to ever exist. Lightning Cacoons, Death Fields, Beast control, Essence Transfer, Also one of the highest pain thresh holds in the mythos. Seriously Bane has made pain his *****. Krayt is a juggernaut of the dark side but Bane is a demi-god
What I'm suggesting is that the difference might not be very precise at all. Again, Zannah is far more proven, to the point where she's established to be even more powerful than Bane in the novels. Wyyrlock hasn't got anywhere near that level of backing for his power or abilities. That Zannah, someone with more raw power than Bane, defeated Bane with sorcery, and that you like the idea that Zannah and Wyyrlock are comparable powerful sorcerers, is not enough reason to claim that Wyyrlock would threaten Bane with sorcery. There is nothing concrete that puts Wyyrlock, or Andeddu, on a level even close to Zannah or Bane in raw power or ability.
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I'd like to point out that Wyyrlok hasn't been shown wielding the ability that beat Bane. Bane actually overcame Zannah's illusions. Zannah was good enough to casually and instantly send exceptional force wielders into comas with one of her weaker spells.
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Sure, and Krayt's a dean who's studied all the professor's works and more.
Bane's Isaac Newton. Krayt's Stephen Hawkings.
And Krayt's energy absorption is more impressive than Bane's.
Krayt's not exactly unequipped to deal with that either.
Krayt has one of the best blitz feats ever.
Force drain, tutaminis, shatterpoint, essence transfer, dark transfer.
Krayt made death his.
Bane is someone who made an order knowing he wasn't the ultimate and others would surpass him by building upon his knowledge.
Krayt is someone who spent over a century gathering all the knowledge that came before to make himself and his order as strong as possible, building up based on what came before, and underwent a transformative experience that gave insight from a place Bane had never seen and which left him changed and more powerful.
Original Recipe Krayt may have been a juggernaut, but Reborn is closer to a god than Bane.
Zannah's proven against one foe with sorcery (in the fight vs the strike team, she didn't use it).
Wyyrlok, two (Andeddu and Krayt).
That speaks otherwise to me.
I think personal familiarity is trumping who's actually done more.
Based on.... what? He stomped Andeddu in a power contest when Andeddu was using an amplifier and he wasn't, shattering the force crystal in the struggle.
He almost got Krayt in Krayt's strongest form, and Reborn Krayt's oozing with raw power. Even non-reborn was noted to have a ton, it's where all his power Beyond Shadows came from.
Wyyrlok's a badass who gave Krayt at his top a hard fight, and Reborn Krayt's raw power likely surpasses Bane's peak.
And I'll note two things. One, Zannah's illusions don't cause physical harm like Wyyrlok's or even Andeddu's do.
Two, Bane had to struggle to do so. Do you think he could've stopped lightning at the same time? Or a lightsaber? If it'd been two on one, things would've ended then.
Mind you, sorcery isn't his only means of holding off Bane, he's a strong duelist too.
Wyyrlok flat-out killed a living/undead legendary sorcerer from a time full of sorcerers with illusion-sorcery alone.
The exceptional force wielders Zannah killed were from a time when everyone but Zannah and her master were behind the curve in force knowledge and where almost no-one else had sorcery knowledge.
The only opponent she ever faced who had good sorcery defense was Bane.
Registered: Mar 2014
Location: The Proud Nation of Kekistan
When have Wyyrlok's illusions caused physical harm?
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Shadilay my brothers and sisters. With any luck we will throw off the shackles of normie oppression. We have nothing to lose but our chains! Praise Kek!
THE MOTTO IS "IN KEK WE TRUST"
May 14th, 2014 12:55 AM
