It's all pretty even or slightly in favor of independence depending on what poll you look at.
I am Scottish myself but living in England and it will be again if it goes through as there looks to be fees that are introduced to cross the border. Which is annoying as I go there to visit family often.
Salmond has a good idea by wanting to control his own country and stuff (like removing the bedroom tax) among other things. But it's whether he will actually be able to make Scotland a sustainable country without making these sweeping statements.
I read from a Scotsman that my American jimmies should be rustled over the UK and how it has treated Scotland because of 1 major issue:
They taxed Scotland, without Scotland's say-so. This amounted to "Taxation without Representation."
I do not know the details on this. Like, did Scotland not have anyone present in parliament when these taxes were decided upon? I cannot believe that is true. There's just no way that a country as large and populous as Scotland would have no representation in parliament.
Scotland has full parliamentary representation. What your commentator meant was that there have been times where the MPs in Scotland didn't want the taxes but were outvoted by the majority in the UK as a whole.
It is therefore a poor argument from your Scotsman for several reasons:
1. The comparison is poor. The pre-US Colonies weren't saying "We want representation so we can not be taxed", they were saying "If we are going to be taxed, we deserve representation." Scotland has what the colonies were asking for- they have a voice in the running of the UK, and indeed Scotland is the main reason the Tories don't win every election. Scotland is actively making a difference.
2. You can't join a democratic voting system and then complain that you have to follow laws that the House voted for. That's kinda how the system works. Any part of a nation will be, very often, subject to laws that do not benefit that particular region- whilst also being subject to laws that DO benefit them and not others.
3. In any case, Scotland has been given (and will be given if it stays) increasing control over its own taxation.
-
The bigger deal is that Scotland believes it gets a poor deal from the current constitutional arrangements; that's really where the argument is.
__________________
"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"
"You've never had any TINY bit of sex, have you?"
BtVS
Last edited by Ushgarak on Sep 15th, 2014 at 04:53 PM
Yep, to be honest the problem is Salmond has been making these sweeping statements about we only have one chance in a lifetime and we will make this country successful. But it will be so much different when/if he gets independence.
I think voting No and going with a Devo-Max could be better.
Likewise- I think the long-term trend should be about moving together, rather than apart. I also think Scotland benefits more than it loss from the Union anyway; a lot of this is really about hating the Tories, but getting independence for that reason won't actually benefit people much in the long term.
Lewis Grassic Gibbon- whose works about Scotland ironically were used by Scottish nationalists as part of their platform, despite Lewis being pretty much the complete opposite of a nationalist- summed it up well:
"What a curse on the world are small nations."
__________________
"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"
"You've never had any TINY bit of sex, have you?"
BtVS
Last edited by Ushgarak on Sep 15th, 2014 at 05:00 PM
That makes a whole lot more sense. Some of the pro-independence Scottish are using quite a bit of hyperbole to try and win favor to their arguments. Fibbing to ignorant Yanks is clearly one of those ways.
I should note that it wasn't Jaden who told me the stuff about taxes.
The independence push has always had its ups and downs.
Basically, it goes through cycles. It just so happens that more want it now than ever before based on the events that led up to the current state of affairs.
For many years, during a lull on the independence push, many Scots just stewed in simmering anger and spite towards the UK. I say this because even during the down times when there is not nearly as much support for Independence, many Scots can be worked up into a frenzy over this discussion with a single sentence.
Now, that pot is boiling. If this vote fails, then perhaps someone will turn down the heat and the pot will start to simmer, again...until someone makes it boil.
Edit - I enjoy the fact that "One_Angry_Scot" is posting in this thread.
__________________
Last edited by dadudemon on Sep 15th, 2014 at 05:51 PM
The thing is Salmond can actually play on the hearts of the people this time.
He can say we can be rid of the Tories governing us and get rid of the bedroom tax.
We can make our citizens richer and increase our living standards, we can help our pensioners. And we wont have a foreign government telling us what to do.
That's what Salmond is playing on. Unfortunately I don't see Scotland being economically stable to survive on it's own. If it keeps the £ it is still governed by England setting interest rates. And if it goes into the euro it risks falling into a quagmire and who knows what could happen.
I just wish the best for them ultimately but I believe Salmond is leading them on a false path.
Yeah Trident is based in Scotland. One risk is they could lose tons of jobs by moving it.
The thing is they are a nuclear free country anyway. It's property of England but Salmond uses the fact that it's in Scotland to imply he owns it in a way.
It's not like were under risk of being invaded for possessing WMD's.
the closest thing we have got to a WMD is a p***ed up Glaswegian throwing a rotten Haggis at you.
KMC Community Forums
Sep 15th, 2014 04:23 PM
