This is pretty even. Maul was nearly as strong as Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan and this duo is perhaps even with that one so they could probably take out Maul - I'd say Mundi isn't far behind Qui-Gon and Aayla is a fair bit above TPM Obi-Wan (she did, by this time, manage to defeat Aurra Sing in a lightsaber duel, so she's pretty strong). This duo would be stronger than Qui-Gon and TPM Obi-Wan but their teamwork probably isn't quite as good as Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan's is, so overall this team would probably be equally profecient against Maul as that duo was.
What were Ki-Adi/Aayla's Lightsaber styles? Wern't they like Form 1? If so, then I doubt they would beat Maul, Qui-Gon was on par with Mace apparently, Ki-Adi was more of a General than a Warrior.
From the way they died in ROTS I find it VERY hard to picture Ki Adi and Aayla defeating Maul. Very hard indeed. Ki-Adi at time of TPM didn't even use a lightsaber and he seemed pretty weak at it in AOTC and ROTS - he'd be totally overpowered.
Aayla would do better - as good as or better than TPM Kenobi. I don't know how strong Aura Sing is [from all the jedi shes killed she must be very tough] but if Aayla beat her then she must be good. And she was totally caught of guard in ROTS and I couldn't see Qui-Gon doing much better.
Maul mauls Ki Adi and defeats Secura with some difficulty
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He was. He was beating the shit out of both of them, and wasn't even tired. The novel confirms that, and so does the movie. He's superior to Qui-Gon in terms of fighting and "weapons training", in other words: skill.
So because they died via a surprise attack, it's "hard to imagine" them beating beating Maul? That's ridiculous. Aayla was gunned down from behind without even a chance to even overcome her clone troops. And Ki-Adi-Mundi, though he did put up a decent fight, ultimately died as well. You can't base a fight off a surprise attack, otherwise people would be saying "l0l Anak1n sh0ewalk3r beat Mac3 Windu".
WTF? Everyone used a lightsaber. We just don't see him activate it, or use it because it was a short movie. In his days past, he carried a lightsaber all the time, and was definitely more martial.
We don't even see Aayla is TPM, can we say she sucks because of that?
Answer: No.
He would get overpowered, as Maul is firmly his superior, but what you're saying is pretty ridiculous. He "seemed" pretty weak in AOTC and ROTS, despite barely getting any screen time? Lol. Again, ridiculous.
Maul wins nonetheless.
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"The ability to speak does not make you intelligent." - Sagacious Jedi Master Qui-Gon Jinn.
Last edited by Advent on Aug 17th, 2006 at 09:56 PM
Ki-Adi uses Makashi, the same form as Dooku, idk about Aayla, doesn't she use Ataru? And no, Qui-Gon wasn't on par with Mace, his saber skills were close to TPM Mace's.
Really? So that's why he ended up dead and at the bottom of a pit?
You know, ROTS Obi-Wan alone could beat Maul and he would have been killed by the Clones just as easily as Ki-Adi or Aayla had been if he hadn't been moving so fast. he didn't sense anything, either, at least Ki-Adi fought back.
Proof that he didn't use a lightsaber? And he didn't seem to be that weak, he did well at the Battle of Geonosis and defended himself against the Clones that attacked him.
Aurra Sing beat Ki-Adi once inbetween TPM and AOTC so she's pretty strong.
What makes you think that Aayla's so much stronger than Ki-Adi? Ki-Adi did better than she did against General grievous when they fought on Hypori, he was a high general in the Clone Wars, he fought off the Clones that killed him better than she did, he uses a form more suited for lightsaber to lightsaber combat, he's a Jedi Master and she's but a Knight so for all those reasons I can't see where you came to the conclusion that Aayla would do better against Maul than Ki-Adi would.
Oh I agree than he was superior to either of them alone, just not at the same time, though that was damn close.
Advent, you think that Maul would win? Why, you don't believe this duo to be superior to TPM Obi-Wan and Aayla? Well, either way I think this battle is close but I still give it to the duo.
What? Superior to TPM Obi-Wan and Aayla? You mean Qui-Gon and Kenobi, yah?
In any case, I'd definitely submit Aayla > Kenobi, however, Qui-Gon > Ki-Adi-Mundi. Now, the gap between Aayla and Kenobi is probably greater than the gap between Qui-Gon and Mundi (in terms of power), but not by much; although the one thing that Jinn and Kenobi had over this duo is teamwork, experience together, and coordination (which is the same thing typed three times). Which counts for a helluva' lot in terms of a tag match.
Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon had worked together for years, and they've done battle several times before. And while Qui-Gon isn't young, and quick - Obi-Wan makes up for that, and while Obi-Wan is inexperienced, Qui-Gon makes up for that. They are a good team. Despite all that, the TPM novels describes their offensive maneuvers as this:
"...their efforts at attack, at assuming the offensive against this dangerous adversary, were woefully inadequate."
"So they challenged the Sith Lord quickly, and just as quickly I discovered that their best efforts were not good enough to achieve an early resolution."
Clearly, nothing that either of the two could do together could stop Maul. That leads me to believe a duo that isn't as coordinated, and hasn't worked together as much won't be as successful. Which in actuality, isn't successful at all.
Plus, Ki-Adi-Mundi really isn't much of a warrior. In his younger days as a Jedi knight, when he was more martial and active - he got tooled by some thugs, IIRC (In a flashback, I think). As a master, he's just been sitting on his ass. I don't believe he'll present much of a threat to Maul. In addition, Maul was definitely able to hold Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan back, and beat the shit out of them with melee attacks:
"His agility and dexterity allowed him to keep them both at bay, constantly attacking while at the same time effectively blocking their counterattacks, relentlessly searching for an opening in their defense."
Given we know Ki-Adi isn't much of a swordsman, I don't think his defenses will be as well packed as Qui-Gon's. And if he manages to take out Mundi, he'll kill Aayla. I don't think Aayla will be able to penetrate Maul even while working with Mundi due to the fact he's a superior swordsman by far, and she has to worry about her partner.
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"The ability to speak does not make you intelligent." - Sagacious Jedi Master Qui-Gon Jinn.
That's true, but Mundi and Secura have worked together before, on Hypori, and their both fairly strong Jedi, surely they'd work allright together, maybe not as good as Kenobi and Jinn did, but pretty well.
Couldn't stop him quickly, anyway. But what if either Mundi or secura attacked Maul on one on and when things started to look bad for the Jedi the other Jedi took over, so they would eventually tire Maul out?
I dunno, Mundi has uses the best lightsaber to lightsaber form their is, and he did better than any other Jedi against Grievous on Hypori, even better than Shaak Ti did.
Wha-? Mundi uses Makashi, how is he not much of a swordsman? As for his defenses not being as good as Qui-Gon's, Qui-Gon uses ataru, which doesn't really have much or a defense, it's mostly all offense.
One time before, and they virtually got pwned by Grievous, despite having three other friends, including Jedi Master Shaak Ti with them. They didn't seem to fair together too well.
Come again? It says they challenged him, and basically just as quick found out they suck against him.
It took 30 seconds exactly to off Qui-Gon Jinn in direct combat, who is better than both of these combatants on a single level. And this was Qui-Gon describes directly by the TPM script as "attacking with a ferocity not seen before", and the novel also supports that Qui-Gon "found a new reserve of strength" while meditating. It's safe to assume Jinn was giving it his all, and more (impossible, but you know what I mean) - he was fighting as hard as he ever had in his life. So, I really don't see Mundi, who is less martial and less skilled than Jinn lasting too long, let alone long enough to even tire out.
Aayla, however, has a chance, but it's highly doubtful she would be able to do anything good before Mundi dies if they alternate out. We know Maul never tires throughout the entire 4 minutes and 30 second plus duel, so I can't see them tiring him out on a singular level while alternating.
But he's not the most formidable user there is. Makashi doesn't make you invincible, this can be seen by the fact that Anakin beat Dooku using Djem So. His lightsaber form really isn't important given the fact he's not close to the level of Maul in terms of saber combat.
So what? That doesn't mean he's any good. He got tooled by a few mercenaries in his Jedi Knight days when he was younger, stronger, and far more martial. Prove he uses Makashi, too.
Except there's nothing to indicate that Ki-Adi even has a good defense. If Ataru is purely offense, then there'd be no reason for Maul to need to search for an opening in both Jinn and Kenobi's defense.
Anyways, question: Quote, and source for Mundi using Makashi. I've never heard of that before, I've heard Shaak Ti, but not Mundi. Where is this said?
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"The ability to speak does not make you intelligent." - Sagacious Jedi Master Qui-Gon Jinn.
Yeah, I do have to find the source, huh? All I remember is there was this member here last winter who was only here for like a week and he proved that Mundi uses Makashi and I can't remember his sn or wheat his source was. Shall I try and find it? I have no idea where to start looking, there are so many threads!
Anyway, I think you were talking about Darth Callous DS, he said that Mundi was stated to use form II in the book where Mundi is briefly Anakin's master, does anyone know which book that is?
But they probably fought alongside one another during while fighting battle droids, tool before they fought Grievous. And they only did so poorly against Grievous because:
1. it was Clone Wars Grievous, who's stronger than he is in ROTS
2. The Jedi were tired from fighting battle droids (they were literally panting a minute before Grievous dropped down from the ceiling).
3. Grievous caught them by surprise (who would have suspected him to drop down from the ceiling?) and
4. The Jedi were afraid of Grievous - fear worked to his advantage.
By the time the Jedi got a grip on themselves and really started fighting well it was only Shaak Ti and Ki-Adi left, and they were tired so Grievous won.
No, it says: "So they challenged the Sith Lord quickly, and just as quickly I discovered that their best efforts were not good enough to achieve an early resolution." Meaning they couldn't stop him quickly.
True, good point, but if Mundi starts to lose after like twenty seconds then Aayla can take over... but you've got a good point, it wouldn't be a very efficient strategy.
So tell me again - what makes you think Aayla will be so much more challenging to Maul than Mundi? And you don't think Maul ever gets tired during the duel? Not even a little? Just cause he doesn't show that he's tired doesn't mean that he isn't.
True, but I wouldn't go as far as to say Mundi isn't much of a swordsman, he proved himself better than K'kruck, Aayla or Shaak Ti on Hypori, so he's at least allright. I dunno about him not being close to Maul, I don't think he is but we don't got alot to go on except the cartoon.
Allright, I'll look for the proof, if you prove that he was stronger in his Jedi Knight days and provide the source where he got defeated by a few merchants.
Mundi defended himself against grievous for a while. Where does it say that Maul searched for an opening in Jinn's defence, the TPM novel?
Aight, I'll look, but with all the threads it'll be hard. I'll try, though.
I'll check on that guy.
Yes, that one and Star Wars Republic 59: Enemy Lines.
Edit: No, I don't think it was diamond bullets, I know who he is, it wasn't somebody who hung around in this section for that long, only 1-2 weeks.
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Last edited by darthsith19 on Aug 18th, 2006 at 03:43 AM
Aug 17th, 2006 08:10 PM
