Yeah, pretty much depends which you give more credence to: feats or statements.
For instance, Kubik gesturely warped the Beyonder's entire universe into a tiny sphere that he could easily crush in his hand -- a feat FAR beyond anything the Celestials have ever done. However, Kubik has also stated that even the weakest Celestials are infinitely more powerful than himself. Meh.
If he had said this once, we could chalk it up to th writer not knowing the Marvel hierarchy, but he's said it multiple times.
Feat wise, on panel, Kubik > anything any Celestial or most other abstracts has ever done. But that feat, encapsulating the Beyonder's universe in a globe in the palm of his hands, is suspect. Was it really an entire universe (infinite in size with it's own abstracts) or just a pocket dimension (like Mephisto or Satannish's realms)?
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..even the outer hells are indifferent matters for they bow only to potent and archaic Nodens.
That's what it's been portrayed as. Numerous instances where they've mentioned that it was a universe and never once did they say it was a pocket dimension at all.
Kubik in terms of feat. Statement wise Tiamut would take this.
Numerous times? I may have missed a few issues where they mentioned it. But the only time I recall it being mentioned as a "universe" was in the FF issue where the fight went down.
The 'universe' was noticeably lacking abstractions and when the Beyonder bragged that he was God here, all his worshipers were Earth bound.
That and the fact that the theme of the issue was "nothing is as it seems" leads me to believe it was a pocket dimension like the various Hells or offshoot dimensions to our own.
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..even the outer hells are indifferent matters for they bow only to potent and archaic Nodens.
The main problem I have with Kubik's addressing to the Celestial is that it's outdated. Whereas in more recent encounters, Thanos #10 where Kosmos (another cube being) took mortal form and was bested by Thanos.
I have the issue and read it. I was just asking where else was it referred to as a universe. The fact is his universe was devoid of any alien races and abstractions. Full cube beings don't have that kind of power (to create a Universe or Destroy one) and Beyonder wasn't even a full cube being.
Add to the fact that Kubik (or any other Cube being) hasn't been shown doing anything on that level of power before or since that event. It doesn't add up.
Hmm I think I remember this too. This was after the Protege fiasco.
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..even the outer hells are indifferent matters for they bow only to potent and archaic Nodens.
I disagree. Aside from a few instances, we've never really seen cube beings go all out -- but when they do, they usually display insane levels of power. Case in point: Beyonder and MM's next battle (which occurred years later) affecting trans-multiversal reality:
I find the Maker showing against Thanos as being very strange, because in the same comic it's stated by Thanos, iirc, that Maker still has the power of roll back the universe to the crunch or something like that. I was also under the impression that the only reason Thanos won was because of Maker's failing mental health.
Yes and what exactly was affected? A potted plant gained consciousness, a Watcher goes blind, a world is destroyed, some 2d beings gain a 3rd dimension, and a statue on the Skrull homeworld cries blood.
Odin/Seth have done more when they fought. Aaron and Uatu when they threw down, it rippled across every plane of existence. Two Thors merely clangin' hammers shook the universe.
I'm just not impressed by what was shown on panel.
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..even the outer hells are indifferent matters for they bow only to potent and archaic Nodens.
You are correct. Maker purposely took mortal form and allowed itself to have certain weaknesses (particularly mental ones, Oracle of the Imperial Guard shut Maker's mind down and that's how it was imprisoned in the Klynn in the first place).
Also, Thanos did say it was still a universal threat. But when the Annihilation Wave event occurred, and most of the Klynn prisoners were either free or killed, Surfer and Galactus were having a conversation about the escapees. Surfer wondered about the threat the Maker now posed, but Galactus referred to something FAR worse than the Maker being imprisoned there. That was Aegis and Teneberous.
So according to Galactus, Aegis/Teneberous > Maker.
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..even the outer hells are indifferent matters for they bow only to potent and archaic Nodens.
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Dec 10th, 2010 07:17 PM
