He's basically arguing Superman under a sun is invincible.
__________________ What CDTM believes;
Never let anyone else define you. Don't be a jerk just to be a jerk, but if you are expressing your true inner feelings and beliefs, or at least trying to express that inner child, and everyone gets pissed off about it, never NEVER apologize for it. Let them think what they want, let them define you in their narrow little minds while they suppress every last piece of them just to keep a friend that never liked them for themselves in the first place.
I may b wrong, but I believe carver is saying that, regardless of how it happened, SBP's natural state at the time, was at a lower power level.
It was not a condition that could b healed, repaired, cured or corrected.
In that case, the suit would b considered an "amp". Even if it was only bringing his power back to a previous "norm".
The lower power state was his "norm" for that period of time, however long it lasted.
If he fights in a dim void, he is weaker than if he is next to the sun. But, what is his normal power level?
Submariner on land or in the sea? Hulk, cut off from gamma, or next to a gamma bomb?
It's like debating with Hulk as a combatant. If it's Joe Fixit Hulk, he does not get to use the power profile of WWHulk. Whatever caused it, did not matter. At that time, he was Joe Fixit.
This situation can b seen in many other character story arcs.
Sentry, Ironman, Tigershark, Superman, Mangog, Destroyer, etc.
It's about considering a character who has had different showings.
What is the difference between "Most Powerful Version" and "Amp'd Version"?
How do u identify "natural state" as opposed to temporarily weakened or temporarily strengthened, especially if differences in environment can change the profile?
- On earth, I can jump 2ft off the ground.
- If u transport me to to a planet with higher gravity than earth, and I can only jump 1 ft off the ground, am I a "weak jumper", or is the gravity high?
- Then, if I put on jet boots and I can suddenly jump 2 ft off the ground, am I a "high jumper", or am I wearing "jet boots"?
.
Last edited by Horrificus on Nov 10th, 2018 at 01:04 AM
Hey. I just want all of u to know that, it might look like I stayed home on friday night and did nothing but post to a comic book forum, by myself, but that's not true.
Because, um, I... I am having a party right now. Im just hanging out in a... In a hot tub! Yup. Me and some lady friends.
I am also drinking. Bottles of beer, from a case of beer. Yup.
Soooo, when u see my name by a bunch of threads, showing that I was posting all night, im only doing it when i... when i... when i take breaks, from the heavy partying! Yup. Wild night.
I just wanted to make that clear. Well, i have to go. There is a drinking game. And i am probably going to get asked to dance by a girl.
As shown, the sun is beaming on him. Crazy thing is, he was still weakened. It was outright said after this that the suit is what was increasing his power level. The heroes then proceed at tearing it off of him. Once the suit was gone, he began losing (even though he was near full power due to the armor). Once the sun came out, it completed the process. But as shown, he was already feeling Ray's... he was still weakened afterwards though.
I was leaning towards Destroyer, but Carver's argument convinced me I'm wrong.
Thanks, Carver.
__________________ What CDTM believes;
Never let anyone else define you. Don't be a jerk just to be a jerk, but if you are expressing your true inner feelings and beliefs, or at least trying to express that inner child, and everyone gets pissed off about it, never NEVER apologize for it. Let them think what they want, let them define you in their narrow little minds while they suppress every last piece of them just to keep a friend that never liked them for themselves in the first place.
It's simple. Maybe if I explained it like this. If I made a thread, Thor vs Superman with Superman having a suit on that consistently feeds him solar energy, it would be an unfair thread. The difference with Prime and Superman is, nothing was ever stated that the suit was identical to a sundip, but, on panel, it was said that the suit prevented certain type of attacks from impacting Prime due to it continuously charging him. I dont know any other way of explaining this.
The heroes wanted to get the suit off of Prime so that their attacks could be more effective against him. With the suit on, he was able to endure more because it was feeding him his power source. Here is an example of what I am talking about... Namor. Replace the water he jumped for with solar energy for Prime. The damage Wolverine did diminished once Namor got a taste of his power source. Prime luxury is, he is consistently being bathed in his.
But it could be healed/repaired. As we know what he was able to do BEFORE the Flashes dumped him into the Speed Force (pushing planets around etc). He's STILL Silver Age, after all. All of his showings pre-Crisis are valid.
The argument that Carver is peddling here is not without merit. He's essentially arguing that SBP was able to continually heal himself with the suit.
Which......doesn't bode well for Carver in other threads. As it means ALL of SBP's defeats when he's wearing the suit are PIS. Krypto, Titans, all his low showings....are PIS. Because as per Carver, he should be continuously at 100%.
And now on to the rest of the posts
Phuck you, Nemebro.
Carver, you're my bestest buddy. Not once in this thread did you say anything about ampi-
So, Namor has had a spiffy new costume AGAIN.
__________________
Last edited by DarkSaint85 on Nov 10th, 2018 at 11:19 AM
Um... pardon me.
But, doesn't the "durability" option come as part of the whole Powers Package? Along with strength, flight, um... "strong breath" freezing, easily seeing people naked, break dancing, bikini waxing, etc.
Normal Power Level = S
Lower Power Level = T (his new "norm" at the time)
Difference Between T and S, ( S - T = R )
Suit = R
T without R, does not equal S
So, yes, the suit added a significant amount of missing power and added support to ALL weakened powers and abilities.
So, if T was his power level at the time, on a regular basis, the addition of the suit would b considered an "amp", no?
Before answering, keep in mind that there may b characters that u defend, who have this similar situation, or had in the past.
ty carv. I actually dont remember doing that. Um, u know, because of all the partying. And beer and rock n roll music.
But, i was not home. Wasnt home, posting in a comic book forum on friday night.
I drank until I made so much WASTE, dude. I mean, I got so very WASTED.
"On paper", doesnt SBP's power level, potentially vary, depending on where he is at the time and what is near him?
Is his power level any different in his current universe, from his power level in his universe of origin?
THIS is the problem with all characters that rely on power sources outside of themselves. They r always being FED their power.
This is y I chose to generate my own power supplies, rather than get it from ... "out there".
U will NEVER see me get my mojo disconnected while Im in the middle of a Cosmic Battle.
Last edited by Horrificus on Nov 10th, 2018 at 01:50 PM
7 years ago I was able to benchpress 400 lb.
Then I had to move to an area with no gym nearby. Now, I am out of shape and can only bench about 300 lb.
Thats my current norm.
If I were to find a power suit that allows me to lift 400 lb, is that an amp? Or, do we say MY CURRENT POWER LEVEL allows me to bench 400 lb?
The suit does not change anything about me. It's just a tool. A crutch.
Last edited by Horrificus on Nov 10th, 2018 at 02:09 PM
Are most of your appearances at power lifting competitions with this suit on (assuming they're allowed; my analogy is imperfect).
In other words, is it standard equipment for you?
Do we say 'Tony Stark is only human level' when in vs fights? GL?
Or do we take their kit into account? Batman? Deathstroke?
Moreover, does your suit work by substituting for your muscles (through hydraulics or whatever) or does it allow you to lift 400lbs by weird timey wimey shenanigans, by bringing you to your own human potential (so if I wore the same suit, it enables me to lift 100lbs because that's my Max)?
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