Once again, you repeat my words and act like you've observed me and figured out what I'm all about. However, this is a false victory for you since all you're doing is repeating everything I say about myself and passing it off as an astute observation on your part.
What is it about what I've said that makes you think any of the "teaching" of gods love that I have experienced was done in a hateful manner? My time studying the bible was done so in a very nurturing environment. In fact the majority of my religion teachers went out of their way to explain the bible and christianity in a very difference-friendly manner. Face to face hatred is something I've rarely experienced. And hatred because of my sexuality is something I've experienced even less. In fact, the only time I've heard hatred is when I watch "christians" on television, spewing their hate rhetoric in one breathe and asking for a dollar in the next. Either that, or some bible thumping hypocrit like Ted Haggard who has politicized his religion for profit. It's always contrary to Jesus' message of unity and peace with them. They're HYPOCRITS. Do you know what that means?
As for my sex life, I've never felt unloved because of it. In fact, I can't recall ever feeling unloved, due to sex or otherwise. You think my disgust with your fairy tale religion comes from some emtpy place in my life. It doesn't. I've never sated my desire for greater understanding with sex. Sorry if you have in the past, but see we're two different people. So, if you want to know why I dislike christianity, simply re-read your post. I've quoted it so you don't have to go very far to see a copy of it.
As for "trying to be straight", I'll do it as soon as you try being gay. When you do, you'll be demonstrating how open minded you are. I understand that you preach this garbage, and maybe you're doing it to try and get under my skin, because you think you actually believe it. But if you had two grains of sense you wouldn't type such an easily dismissable post as though it were well-thought and compassionate. You need to understand that I dismiss your religion because I have educated myself. For gods sake, I just heard a preacher on TV say that people lived to be 400 and 500 years old before the biblical flood because they were vegitarians. Come on man, you peple can't be that naive. Does this explain how someone could survive in the stomach of a whale too?
But, as I have said many times before, people like you want everyone else to be exactly the same as yourself because you are scared. You're scared because you don't really have any clue what's going to happen to you when you die. You don't have a clue, neither does the Pope and neither did Jesus. And the louder you preach your narrow minded views, the better you feel about yourself and the unknown. If you don't have the confidence in your own beliefs to enjoy them quietly, then I guess you'll just have to tell everyone else how they should think and feel the same way you do.
I'm not scared to be a christian. I was one for a long time. But it can be drilled out of your head just as easily as it's drilled into your head. If you had a shitty life before you found christianity and it's turned your life around, that's good for you. I'm glad you found something to cling to during hard times. But I don't need it. So, while christianity has answered all your questions, it's provided very few for mine. And in my studies of other religions, I found no more reasonable or concrete answers either. So, while I'm not an atheist, I'm simply content knowing that it's okay not to have all the answers, because no one does.
__________________ "If I were you"
"If you were me, you'd know the safest place to hide...is in sanity!
No one is trying to proclaim victory over you. Again - everyone who is *critical* of you, isn't trying to condemn. I merely based my observation on what was posted. There seems to be much anger that resonates from your posts, particularly when you reference specific individuals who taught you the scriptures. I have no idea why this anger is there, however, it is very apparent that *is* there - upon reading each response(that you make).
Regarding your other request - I'm going to have to respectfully decline. As I have stated before, I've already engaged in sexual sin, so there really is no point for me to engage in further sexual sin in order to prove a point. Like yourself - the end result of this sin, was always much anger, as well as a feeling of hurt and rejection, usually followed by some very severe consequences. So again - I am not talking to you as a superior, I am talking to you as an equal, and an empathetic peer - or to simplify, I am talking to you as a sinner.
However the beauty(and perfection) of God - is his unlimited patience and love he has with his children. As long as the motivation to change is there, he is willing to forgive just about any sinner - so long as they are humble to admit that they are one(and have the motivation within their hearts to change). I feel like you do carry this humility within you to do this, seeing as how you have already acknowledged that you are the one responsible for the initial *rejection*.
Perhaps you could further divulge some specific scenarios, about the way in which you were taught the scriptures - and any other scenarios regarding your personal life, relating to what we have discussed. If you feel uncomfortable doing so on this forum, then you can always PM me.
__________________
Wisdom is the right use of knowledge. To know is not to be wise. Many men know a great deal, and are all the greater fools for it. There is no fool so great a fool as a knowing fool. But to know how to use knowledge is to have wisdom.
Did you even read my post? Because now you're making stuff up. I just posted a lengthy explaination and clarification of your first misunderstanding of my position. I'm not going to repeat myself, especially since you just keep repeating everything I say in the first place.
As for you request for further discussion, I don't need a sympathetic or empathetic ear. I'm not the one with security issues, despite you repeatedly telling me I am. I'm not humiliated by my belief that christianity is equal to fairy tales. I'm not humiliated by my homosexuality. I just explained that the majority of my religion teachers were very open minded and caring people, one of which was gay and another that had a gay son.
Is there something you don't comprehend about me thinking that your religion is false and I'm not buying into it? I feel 0 need to change. If you feel you need to change me; then that's your bag, not mine. My sex life has never left me feeling like I'd sinned nor has it left me feeling angry or rejected. You know, a few posts between the two of us aren't going to do anything in the way of enlightening me to the notion that christianity is right and everything else is wrong.
And you're notion that you've sinned sexually and that has some how enlightened you on the subject of homosexuality is just silly. Getting a blowjob from a hooker or a one night stand isn't going to enlighten you to homosexuality. I've slept with women and it didn't make me any more straight than I am now. I'm not seeking acceptance or forgiveness from your version of god. And, it wasn't a serious request for you to play gay to understand me. I wouldn't ask such nonsense of someone. I'm not sure what you want to know about my sex life or my past, but I'm willing to discuss it on these forums. Ask just about anyone who reads and posts here regularly, I'm more than open. You should know this considering how long you've been posting and creating sock accounts here. If there are specifics you want to discuss or questions you want to ask, then feel free. But do so with the understanding that you'll need to actually read what I have to say and not just gloss over it with false compassion and undesired or required sympathy.
__________________ "If I were you"
"If you were me, you'd know the safest place to hide...is in sanity!
I read and responded to parts that I deemed relevant to the discussion, particularly to those parts that we seemed to be making progress in. Much of what you posted - seemed to be convoluted and possessed of anger, as does what you've posted right now. My compassion isn't false - however, you are entitled to believe what you wish to believe. I'm willing to give what I can, but I never give to those who don't ask.
__________________
Wisdom is the right use of knowledge. To know is not to be wise. Many men know a great deal, and are all the greater fools for it. There is no fool so great a fool as a knowing fool. But to know how to use knowledge is to have wisdom.
See the thing is, once you're dead, you can't pay your 10% tithing anymore, so the church doesnt really care if you think you're burning for eternity or not.
If someone tells you your entire life - not to stick your head in a lion's mouth, and then out of curiousity, stupidity, or willfull ignorance - you go stick your head in a lion's mouth, I would take a gander at saying that it's your fault when the lion bites your head off.
__________________
Wisdom is the right use of knowledge. To know is not to be wise. Many men know a great deal, and are all the greater fools for it. There is no fool so great a fool as a knowing fool. But to know how to use knowledge is to have wisdom.
I see this ridiculous argument from non-church going people all the time. First off, most of the people benefitting from tithing are not even church members. Financial records are very open to all church members to look at. There are budget meetings and so on. Money is put where it will have the most effect. The money I tithe usually is given a specific destination. I particularily liked the program my church had for providing homes for single mothers. We raised the money and bought the houses, then we pay for all expenses for these single mothers. How does anyone in the church benefit from this? They don't. Most people in these shelters are not Christians and yet they are the ones getting the money. Apparently the church does care even if you aren't tithing so this argument is crap.
Add to that the fact that most church goers don't tithe and this argument is shown to be further crap.
There may be some selfish church officials out there, but don't lump people together.
Yeah, us people are just the bane of society. The church is a bureaucracy. There IS corruption and there IS waste. I know religious organizations can benefit the community, but its NOT perfect. I have the benefit of seeing the church as both a business and a bureaucracy.
Tithing is in doctrine. I can certainly speak out against that. And we all know that people who don't follow doctrine are "bad/not real Christians"
I donate money too and help people, but I know I'm a lesser person because I'm not Christian.
I didn't lump you. I was specifically directing it at people who make that statement. I never said others can donate and do good things. I merely showed that tithing is not necessarily bad and can definitely be a good thing.
And I'm saying that historically, its been severly abused. One positive consequence doesn't outshine everything....and I'm not saying there is just one positive consequence.
Well, of course, it has been severely abused. As you said, bureaucracy is generally followed by corruption. However, I would like to believe that I am not apart of that corruption.
KMC Community Forums
Dec 3rd, 2006 08:14 PM
