When excatly? By paying other, cause he knew he cant do it himself and had to made a plan.
Here can always be an option. Apocalypse was defeated by less powerful being. Magneto was defeated by Logan. Apocalypse was defeated once by Angel. And it also comes in option that Apocalypse defeated Magneto and Bishop in AoA at the same time. He could kill him with finger (and why he didnt, because of story and Magneto would be aready dead). And when Magneto deafet edhim in AoA, Apocalypse was first chocking him and talking to him (while he was talking to him, he could tear his head of in second, why he didnt, because of story and because that Magneto could gather his power and defeat Apocalypse and beacuse Apocalypse wouldnt prepear to his attack, but was rather talking, he lost due to story)
He has easily power, ha has complete control, he has easily power to hold himself togehter againt Magneto, and e has many options (it only depends on how he is written). But they musnt do that if they need to do Magneto to defeat him. Problem is that Marvel holds Apocalypse as more powerful being than Magneto. Dont be imaginitive demigawd.
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Last edited by Xplosive on Oct 31st, 2005 at 07:33 AM
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lol, by paying others? "Here's $100. Go take care of Apoc".
He killed Apoc in AOA, when he was at 1/3 his 616 power level. And this was after he was beaten up and weakened by Apoc and Holocaust after his capture. Even with all that, he still was able to rise and fight Apoc on even terms the entire issue, and ultimately tear him apart.
You want to talk about plot devices? The whole time Magneto was in Apoc's fortress, he could have unleashed the attack and killed Apoc at any time. He didn't because the plot called for it.
Now just imagine a Magneto three times more powerful. Apoc stands no chance.
A lot of words to say, "Apoc is an idiot". I already knew that.
Magneto was tired, hungry, weakened and tortured for days and STILL took out Apoc. Simple as that.
Apoc became Mag's btch in HoM when he had to come up against a full-powered Magneto. Magneto SPARED Apoc, because he had a purpose for him. Never forget that. Apoc didn't.
I don't have to be imaginative. If Marvel holds Apoc as being more powerful than Magneto, Apoc wouldn't be constantly punked by Magneto in every timeline they battle. So it stands to reason your belief that Marvel holds Apoc as more powerful is wrong.
Apoc just doesn't have the tools necessary to hang with Magneto.
You really dont get it, do you. (He didnt, because he wouldnt succeed and Apocalypse would kill him, yeah you are right, its plot, beaucse Magneto would die and plot wouldnt carry on.)
Haha, purpose, where did you get that from (he has made a plan how to deafeat him, beacuse he wouldn be able to do it himself). Magneto was affraid of him and had to make a plan to defeat him.
This is probably the most stupid sentences. Apocalypse is the one who has all the tools (but 10 % is used of it), while Magneto hasnt the tools (but at least with him they use 100%). Apocalypse powes are on far higher range.
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Last edited by Xplosive on Oct 31st, 2005 at 07:56 AM
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Apoc ambushed Magneto in their first encounter after sending in an army to put down Magneto because he knew he couldn't beat him straight up. Remember, Magneto and Apoc fought before (off-panel), and Magneto BEAT Apoc. Their battle was so fierce that it tore a hole in the EM field of earth, but it drove Apoc into hiding. Apoc didn't want any more of that, so he set up an ambush. Could he have killed Magneto after AMBUSHING him? Sure, but that doesn't prove anything. After he captured Magneto, he tortured him repeatedly for days (which is difficult for a 70+ year old man to take). Magneto was hardly in fighting condition when the X-men rescued him. But he still fought Apoc on totally even terms even after that. Apoc couldn't have killed Magneto at any time after that. They were fighting to a draw. When Magneto stopped fighting, it was a ploy to drop Apoc's defenses because Magneto knew about Apoc's ego...and it worked. It's called a calculated risk - and tactical genius is what makes Magneto Apoc's superior.
What plan? Magneto had no idea the X-men were coming. Magneto's only plan after being rescued was to go and kill Apocalypse. The plan worked. But it didn't require anything else. Remember, nobody else killed Apoc but Magneto. So I don't know what you're talking about by "plan".
This coming from the guy who says Apoc can beat Thanos, Odin and argued that he could damage Galactus.
Which are all assumptions on your part. The only time Magneto was vulnerable was when he was ambushed by Apoc and his army.
And that was STILL Magneto at his absolute weakest. HoM (full power) Magneto made Apoc his SLAVE.
Magneto's powers give him control over the physical universe. Apoc's powers don't come close. Apoc has a broad range of powers, but none of them are first class. I'd rather have total mastery over one power than be C-class in 12, which is why Apoc isn't taken seriously by anybody....except you.
Magneto's powers may be more fundamental. I think Apoc beats him in wisdom and intelligence. His actual power level/output/source (not how fundamental or versatile his powers are) is also higher than Magneto's...IMHO
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Apoc has never struck me as a tactial genius. He stole Celestial tech and used it to become everything that he is. Magneto invented and built all his tech from scratch. that includes the ability to create life (mutates, Alpha), giant asteroid bases, sentient robots (nanny, others), massive bases in the center of the earth, devices capable of destroying the planet. He exhibits an incredible degree of knowledge of how science works and how to scientifically counter any mutant power with his own. These inventions and tactics prove Magneto's that intelligence is on par with that of Stark, Richards and Doom.
What are Apoc's feats of intelligence? He's had 5000 years to develop some. What's he got? What are his brilliant battle strategies? What are his inventions from scratch? What has he created rather than altered? Where's the evidence that he has anything over Magneto mentally?
Magneto is on the level of Stark...I would say he even surpasses Stark in modern comics. However, the portrayal of Magneto as a super genius is a relatively modern invention of the last 15 years. He isnt on Doom or Richards level...its just not his character; his intellect is not a constant factor or threat, its the awesome integration of power and genius that makes him so formidable.
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Magneto was always portrayed as being supergenius level. The creation of the mutates is over 20 years old. I think necessity is the mother of invention - his great power makes having to be even more inventive unnecessary, so I don't think we've even seen his max intellect. But for the sake of argument, I have no problem putting him below Reed/Doom and above Stark. Either way, that's above Apoc's intelligence level.
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Xavier, Magneto, Beast, Forge and Apocalypse are all listed as genius-like intelligence....if you want a x-villian who is a super genius you have to look for someone more Sinister.
Was the Magneto that was part of the X-Men during the F4 vs X-Men cross over in the 80's the real Magneto or was he some kind of clone? Next to Doom his intelligence appeared to be approaching pedestrian.
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claremont intentionally powered him down while he was with the X-men so that he wouldn't overwhelm the X-men. He says he does that with both Magneto and Xavier - usually having them taken out first, or unable to deal with things as heroes that they could as villains, etc. It's a little bit how Thor is never as powerful when he's an Avenger because it makes the stories more interesting.
I'm talking the Magneto who effortlessly walked through Latveria's every defense and went straight to Doom. Then later on, undid Doom's programming on Beast and went on to beat Doom.
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Apocalypse was one of the most physically powerful beings on Earth. Thanks to the Celestial technology's modifications to his body, he could alter the molecular structure of his body at will in order to change his form. Using this he could alter his appearance or the size of his body; transform his arms and fists into various melee weapons and grant himself superhuman strength. He also can generate energy, thanks to a combination of his mutant power and the Celestial technology in his body. He can use this energy to levitate himself and others, create force fields, and project bursts of concussive force, and can augment himself further by drawing on various outside energy sources. Apocalypse has demonstrated the ability to teleport himself and other beings.
"I am the rocks of the eternal shore...crash against me and be broken"
Last edited by Mainstream on Oct 31st, 2005 at 05:30 PM
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Marvel Super-Villain Team Up #14/Champions #16
Magneto invades Latveria and gets to Doom himself to offer a team up. Doom says he doesn't need he - he's already taken over the world with nanobots in the air that EVERYBODY has inhaled. He then takes control of Magneto with the nanobots. He releases Magneto from its control and challenges Magneto to take the world back. Magneto goes to the Avengers Mansion, where Doom has control over them too. He burns out Doom's nanobots inside Beast by controling iron flow in Beast's brain. From there Magneto leads a resistance against Doom, culminating in a big battle in Washington DC (I think) where Doom gets tricked into breathing in his own nanobots and mind-controlling himself. Magneto declares victory. Everybody rejoices - nobody remembers but him, lol.
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Oct 31st, 2005 04:48 AM
