Oh yea they were just trying to get the tracking device on him weren't they?
__________________ "You must begin by gaining power over yourself; then another; then a group, an order, a world, a species, a group of species... finally, the galaxy itself."
- Darth Plagueis
"She may be small but she packs a punch and when shes in this mood...she goes for my danglers" - Oghren, Dragon Age
So they are not going to take the opportunity if presented to detain him or possibly even kill him. Also it's not like the jedi weren't going all out and Katarn let Caedus nearly amputate his leg or impale him towards the end of the battle.
I'll take your word for it because for someone I can't see that post but yeah that post in not right as Sids>Caedus and Revan.
Last edited by Elite Hunter on Dec 12th, 2008 at 07:43 PM
I got my license terminated for taking bribes from Cosa Nostra.
He did know more than just Makashi, it is widely believed that he at the very least had a working knowledge of all the forms. (save Vapaad) Problem is that Dooku rarely switches if ever switches forms in a duel. In ROTS after Dooku was caught by surprise that Obiwan and Anakin were masters of Soresu and Djem So respectfully, he didn't change forms despite the fact that he was facing two of the weaknesses in the duel. He was facing multiple opponents and Anakin was using Djem So which means he is generating power strikes that Makashi can't handle yet he did not switched saber styles despite the realization that he may in fact lose to the duo. I see no reason why he would switch forms vs Caedus.
Of course this could happen eventually.
Actually I don't believe they were on the same battlefield all that often, then you have to take into account that Jacen left to travel the galaxy for 5 years after the war,Kyle wasn't all that involved in the Dark Nest Trilogy and they didn't fight with each other in the Second Galactic Civil War. Then the same thing could be said for Kyle about Caedus seeing each other in action, it works both ways. The fact of the matter is in Fury, Caedus outdueled Kyle and almost amputated Kyle's leg if another jedi didn't get his saber in the way.
If it was a mortal wound(which I don't recall the first wound to be) than that would make it even more impressive that he still fought so well that Jaina she needed to enter a bacta tank afterwards.
Sion literally let himself be talked to death not via a lightsaber wound.
Now how exactly will Dooku be able to contend, a more physically fit and younger opponent?
Someone who can take tremendous amounts of punishment that would leave others unable fight yet he would still openly engage fighters of the caliber of Luke Skywalker and Jaina Solo, he wasn't even a 100% when out dueled Kyle Katarn and the other jedi with him. His own twin was shocked just how much punishment Caedus could take in a fight yet he still almost killed her in both duels despite both of her surprise attacks.
So you think because their mission was to place a tracer on Caedus, that the 4 jedi are going to fight anything less then there best. I don't see logic in that because they could end up dead by not fighting to their fullest. So I don't see how it wasn't legitimate.
This sort reminds of the first Mace-Vastor where Mace picked a fight that he couldn't win but still fought to his fullest and lost.
Last edited by Elite Hunter on Dec 12th, 2008 at 08:22 PM
With respect, Elite, that's a terrible comparison to make. Darth Sexy is quite right, the strike team's priority was not to slay Caedus, but to put a tracer on him -- the Jedi aren't willing to assassinate Caedus until the beginning of Invincible. Does that mean that Kyle and company were restrained totally or significantly? No. But as someone who is a relatively accomplished martial arist, I can tell you from experience that your capability in combat depends heavily on how far and how much you are willing to damage your opponent.
Take Yoda's duel with Dooku and compare it to his subsequent duel with Sidious. On the face of it, both ended in stalemates, with one of the parties retreating at the end. Does that mean, then, that Count Dooku would perform as well against his Master as Yoda did? No. It was plainly evident that Yoda's priority was not to kill his former student. He visibly hesitated more than once to attack him with the Force during the opening salvo and he allowed Dooku to flee. Does that mean that Yoda's saber swings weren't as fast or as strong? No. We saw that he went into full Ataru mode, bashing at Dooku's defenses with abandon. But his heart wasn't in it. He wasn't going to take the strike when the time came. In contrast, he sneaks into the Chancellor's lower office to murder Palpatine -- to commit regicide. There is no demand on Yoda's part for the Emperor to surrender; like Jaina to Jacen in the last LotF book, it wasn't an option. The Sith had to die, period. Which is why, if Yoda had ever faced Dooku in such a manner, his old padawan wouldn't last too long.
Well the trap for Caedus was intended to look like an assassination attempt I think. They had to make it look good. I'm not saying that they could have just killed him right there, though.
Also, I believe Mace would have killed Kar Vastor in their fist-fight if he wanted to, but the book contradicts itself on that whole thing.
__________________ "You must begin by gaining power over yourself; then another; then a group, an order, a world, a species, a group of species... finally, the galaxy itself."
- Darth Plagueis
"She may be small but she packs a punch and when shes in this mood...she goes for my danglers" - Oghren, Dragon Age
I understand what you are getting at. But I would like your opinion on a few quotes from the battle after Katarn was incapacitated. That may suggest their mindstate was changing or at least for Mithric, who Caedus would eventually kill.
No, no, no. ... The words rang in her head and were echoed by Mithric. The Falleen Jedi howled as he charged Solo, his anguish giving him speed and strength as he threw blow after blow at his enemy......
Now the three Jedi Knights assailed Solo all-out, a fight they were doomed to lose. Seha could not save them. Her tasks were accomplished. She should leave before Colonel Solo detected her.
This is the main one of interest to me, it says that they were attacking him "all out" does that mean they were still continuing with the plan and had "reservations" to kill him? (as in your dook-yoda example)
Seha saw the Jedi exchanging words. Valin spun away from the engagement with Jacen and moved toward the one sighted trooper. That man fired again and Valin deflected the bolt with his lightsaber-deflected it straight toward Jacen. The improvised attack evidently came as a surprise: The bolt grazed Jacen's right leg, sending him to his knee. Mithric redoubled his attack, hammering away at Jacen's defense like a toolsmith on a primitive world battering away at a stubborn harvester droid......
Caedus hadn't felt the blaster bolt coming. His concentration was slipping.
And this madman of a Falleen Jedi was starting to beat down his parries. His strength was slipping.
He wasn't yet recovered from his duel with Luke. And now, as more of his troopers began firing, Horn began deflecting more bolts at him. The imprecise, barely aimed nature of the attacks worked in Horn's favor. The shots were unpredictable and Caedus had to divide his attention be-tween a mad swordsman and a growing number of half-blind snipers.
But he was still the best lightsaber swordsman around-excepting possibly Luke, perhaps the best there ever had been.
Caedus waited until the timing was perfect, waited until an incoming bolt arrived at the same moment as one of Mithric's attacks so he could devote a single maneuver to both. He caught Mithric's blow toward the hilt of his lightsaber. He caught the bolt near the tip, deflecting it up and straight into Mithric's chest.
Mithric staggered back, the center of his chest blackened, as the smell of burned skin and meat filled the air. Caedus leapt up and executed a single, precise lateral blow.
Mithric's head fell from his shoulders. His body toppled down half a second later.
Based on these passages, it sounds like Mithric was thinking "to hell with this mission."
What martial art(s) do you practice?
I understand what you are saying and I will look at your example for future reference.
Last edited by Elite Hunter on Dec 12th, 2008 at 09:15 PM
DT was pointing out that while Caedus was one of the most powerful Sith Lords of all time, he failed to achieve his goals. What he failed to realize that only Sidious accomplished the Sith's goals entirely. So, while it was a valid observation, it wasn't particularly insightful.
The statement was not an oxymoron. It could have been phrased better though.
QFT. I quit after hitting purple belt inside of a year - because I was awesome - and then realizing that it was relatively useless to me.
I'm interested in eskrima, personally, but as far as functionality goes you can't really get much better than western boxing and muay thai, with a little bit of judo or jiu-jitsu thrown in. The latter two would be more useful for gaining an understanding of leverage so that you can apply your own knowledge to standing situations; going on the ground in an actual fight, where chances are there're multiple people present, is stupid.
And Gideon, I'm curious as to what belt or dan you are in TKD. Labeling yourself as "accomplished" would suggest that you're fairly high up.
Dec 12th, 2008 12:52 PM
