Three MagnaGuards, each with a double-ended weapon that
generated an energy field impervious to lightsabers, each with reflexes
that operated near lightspeed, each with hypersophisticated
heuristic combat algorithms that enabled it to learn from
experience and adapt its tactics instantly to any situation, were
certainly beyond Obi-Wan's ability to defeat, but it was not ObiWan
who would defeat them; Obi-Wan wasn't even fighting. He
was only a vessel, emptied of self. The Force, shaped by his skill
and guided by his clarity of mind, fought through him.
You can pretend all you like that Dooku is magically capable of taking on Obi-Wan and Mace combined, but the Count fled from Mace on Boz Pity. Unless he uses the Force to squash Obi-Wan with impunity, they'd wreck him.
This [erroneously] assumes all MagnaGuards are identical in skill.
That's nice.
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So half a dozen MagnaGuards are of no consequence when it suits your argument, but two would have let Dooku kill Mace on Boz Pity?
Nah.
Dooku instructed the droids to leave the Jedi to him but fled after sparring with Mace. You can make as many backhanded implications about Dooku's superiority all you like, but the bottom line is that he hauled ass rather than continue the fight. They're equals.
Sources like DR or the Sourcebook would imply Dooku is Maces superior by some level. Dooku shows absolutely no fear when confronting Windu in AOTC. Dooku was the victor of their spars before he turned to the dark side. Dooku is a master of TK. Mace is deadly but this is the guy who went blade to blade with Yoda.
He had Vaapad amp from a guy who was the dark side incarnate. Dooku would not give half the boost Mace got fors Sid. And Mace won cause of shatter point and the window, he was stale mating at best in sabers.
^
Dooku was better then Mace, but it was before Mace mastered his form (he ultimately did it in Shatterpoint, right?). After that, they were equal in term of sabers.
Anyway, I agree, that Dooku's Makashi will be better counter to Vapaad the Palpatine's Juyo.
Yeah, but he does not need to get the same amp…. Normally Sidious is beyond either Mace or Dooku in Force-power.
That’s not the case with Mace and Dooku, who are about equal in that regard. If there is a disparity between them giving an edge to the Count, it's not as big as it's with Sidious. And this gap will be bridged by Vaapad, giving Mace the boost.
Saber-wise, same thing. They are virtually equal. And I must say I take Mace stalemating Sidious in sabers over Dooku lasting only as long against Yoda in sabers.
Bottom line is this: they’re equals.
If anything, I'd give Mace a slight majority in all-out, because he has not only his own power at disposal, but he will feed off Dooku’s dark energy via Vaapad.
__________________ Theory is like a box of tools. It must be useful. It must function. And not for itself.
Last edited by axel_jovan on Mar 23rd, 2013 at 07:46 PM
Vaapads a tricky issue because it's so vaguely defined. And Dookus feat is impressive considering Sidious was disarmed by Yoda in a similar period of time. The one victory Mace had over Dooku was when Kenobi was backing him up.
They are not, the ones with cloaks have more skill. It does not however counter the fact that against the great swordbeings of the Jedi, MagnaGuards go down hard. They've been dehyped considerably in canon.
Would you disagree.
Red herring. MagnaGuards came from nowhere to ambush Mace. They were fully aware of them in the other scenario.
Uhhh, that's because the Republic was winning the battle, their top commander was incapacitated, and Ventress was running rampant. It doesn't take a tactical genius to realize the situation was unassailable and he would be facing a lot more than just Windu in minutes.
I believe they are equals as well.
Also in the duel above note that with a one handed block Dooku was able to block Mace's blow while blowing back the Magna Guards. He's fully capable of using his significant force powers to his advantage in the duel.
Ahsoka's manhandling of MagnaGuards on Tatooine and Shaak Ti's exaggerated performance against another contingent does not preclude that the three that threatened Obi-Wan on Utapau were beyond his ability to defeat naturally or that the MagnaGuards that aided Dooku against Obi-Wan and Mace were of potentially similar caliber.
It would depend on which MagnaGuards, I suppose.
The bottom line is that you haven't the means to conclusively determine their level of skill. They could have been fodder; they might have been elite.
I'm not claiming one way or another, but I am reminding all parties involved that Dooku did not take Obi-Wan and Mace on alone.
That's nice. But Dooku was more than aware of the Republic's invasion and the Jedi's presence before confronting Mace and instructed his droids to leave the Jedi to him. He knew what he was getting into; the fact that he fled is an indicator that he was not prepared, under the circumstances, to take on someone of Mace's caliber.
Again, you can spout backhanded implications ad infinitum and pretend Dooku would have done the same thing had any Tom, Dick, or Jedi squared off with him, but it's simply not the case.
Then you probably shouldn't try to imply otherwise?
True. Not sure if that establishes Mace or Dooku above one another. They can lock blades with each other fairly evenly. Force might go either way though.
Mar 23rd, 2013 06:07 PM
