Physical in the sense that 'the mind makes it real'. Andeddu was slain by Wyyrlok's illusionary lava. Andeddu's illusions could make someone experience wounds, and his were weaker.
Nah, not even close. Bane's demonstration of Tutaminis during the Brotherhood's attack on Ruusan is the finest in the mythos, given that he was absorbing a magnitude of energy that was detroying the entire planet.
But he hasn't dealt with one on Bane's level before, or one even close (nor has he with lightning).
We don't even know if that was a speed blitz, its up to interpretation. Still impressive but Bane's regularly displayed blitz worthy speed against more impressive opponents, and has basically done the strength equivalent, where his strikes are so powerful that his foe can't even adequately defend a single attack (Farfalla in ROT, getting disarmed by Bane's first blow due to the sheer impact of it). Not to mention he's displayed a far greater level of technical proficiency with the blade.
In terms of TK, lightning, and lightsaber prowess, Krayt isn't anywhere near Bane.
Not specifically from a combat or personal power in the darkside perspective,
The difference is that Andeddu is a virtual unknown and Krayt simply not on Bane's level. Wyrrlock has demonstrated effective sorcery against a single person extra than Zannah, but Zannah has successfully demonstrated it on someone far more powerful.
Plus it's pretty easy to extrapolate from Zannah's raw power (confirmed as being significantly beyond Bane's, and clear insane from her untrained demonstrations of power when she was an 8 year old girl, where she dd everything from killing Jedi with the Force, to protecting a small settlement of Bouncers from the BOD's storm, an attack that was literally consuming everything in its path) and the fact that sorcery was her specialty, that she would have been an incredibly powerful sorcerer.
Certainly she should be considered to be on a level, that being susceptible to her sorcery shouldn't be a mark against you, nor should it probably make you just as susceptible to other sorcerers that you can't accurately and quantifiably compare her to.
And as I stated earlier, spirits are rarely as powerful as their living counterparts, and nothing in the comic suggest that this was anything different.
By the looks of it, Ancient Sith for the most part relied on these power amplifiers and would wield them at all times. Everything that we know about Andeddu, and his "legendary power", would not be dealing with Andeddu's power in isolation, but the power he had at his command at any given moment, which would include his sceptor. Thus, I don't see why it's relevant that he had a power amp, when you're basing the impressiveness of the feat off of a reputation Andeddu garnered with the assistance of such amps.
That doesn't make it phsyical lol. They simply had a battle of illusions that took place on a purely mental realm, where things would have felt real and done real damage, but purely from a mental standpoint. The only reason Andeddu was slain by it was, and as Wyyrlock said, "Your Power is in the mind! Your mind forces your body to obey even though dead!" Andeddu was already physically dead, and what Wyyrlock's illusion did were "kill" his mind, where it was no longer able to control its body (Star Wars: Legacy v1 #27, page 17).
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Hitting almost anyone unprotected ad unsuspecting with lightning is death. Nihl won't be catching anyone off guard here.
Er, grab their hearts? Temple of Doom style?
Any of these Banes are quite above the lesser Sith. Even PoD Bane was disintegrating people with his lightning, moving extremely fast, tearing through Force barriers like paper and has other great feats.
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Agreed
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Registered: Mar 2014
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Bane's lightning that ****ed the orbalisks up was powerful enough to disintegrate people, and he was trapped in a sphere of it. I'm pretty sure an exhausted Kol couldn't tank five force pikes set to kill at once either, but Bane could. Bane's lightning is considerably above Nihl's
The thought that Stryfe could kill any version of Bane with TK is amusing. Stryfe isn't powerful enough to break his force shield.
Nihl is the third strongest on Krayt's team and he's still considerably below Bane. Krayt's hands are not on par with Bane.
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Shadilay my brothers and sisters. With any luck we will throw off the shackles of normie oppression. We have nothing to lose but our chains! Praise Kek!
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Because everyone here will be focusing on Nihl and not one or two other foes?
It's impressive, how each Bane can do so much at once. Fight Krayt or Wyyrlok *and* block lightning to the back without missing a beat, eh?
Vaguely, yea. Squeeze their heart in their chests with telekinesis.
Yea, in an era known for weakness.
Put Stryfe in the Sith Academy at the time and he'd easily be one of the most powerful students and probably Bane's new rival.
Just out of a bacta tank due to being hit by multiple grenades, sure. And one on one, sure.
Isn't it amazing how in a 6 on 3 Banes can so consistently get one-on-one matchups with the weakest One Sith? No worries about Wyyrlo slapping him with his greatest fear while he's done so, or Nihl and Maladi doubling up on lightning and breaking through a force barrier. If a One Sith isn't who a Bane wants to fight, they'll just sit back and wait.
Very convenient for them.
Why, one would even go as far to say that if a Bane took on Stryfe one on one, there'd be no worry about any of the other posse members taking advantage at all, even though they're all powerful masters with dangerous abilities.
It's also not like multiple force users working together have ever combined forces to pose a much greater threat to Bane than they would otherwise *coughJediStrikeTeamvsBaneandZannahinRoT*.
Hey, here's another scenario: Krayt fights RoT and PoD at the same time, holds them both up.
5-on-1 beatdown on DoE. DoE dies in 5 seconds as he's hit by illusions, lightning from multiple sources, any lightning he tosses out absorbed or blocked, and his heart grabbed all at the same time.
One Sith slaughterhouse that one, and it's more plausible than the 'Banes get to always go one on one without anyone ever hitting them from the back,' situations.
In order to think that Banes don't have to worry about quantities of master sith, you pretty much gotta ignore his own fights.
Because the Banes are just going to not focus on or engage Nihl at all and give him totally free reign?
If only they had this thing called precognition, Or some sort of extra-sensory perception.
Lol, good luck with that.
An era with many strong Sith nonetheless. And I was referring to the One Sith mooks in this thread, not the Brotherhood guys.
And Bane was able to easily defeat his rival and his mooks by the end of his academy days. By the end of PoD he'd utterly eclipsed Sirak. Just like he utterly eclipses Stryfe. He'll one-shot the guy with the Force. Numbers is the only thing keeping this guy alive.
Who said anything about one on one? I'm talking about a 3 on 1 engagement. I am saying that even with PoD/DoE Bane fighting 2 others at once Stryfe is not breaking through Banes auto-defenses.
Considering Krayt and Maladi couldn't break through Morne/Murr's Force defenses, I'm not seeing Nihl and Maladi breaking through Banes defenses either.
If Bane was in a position to fight Stryfe one on one there would be no opportunity for anyone to take advantage because the fight would last about 2 seconds.
Who were only a threat because of Battle Meditation. And because Zannah was half-trained.
I'm still talking about this from my previous match ups.
RoT Bane vs Krayt.
DoE Bane vs Wyyrlok and 1 or 2 others
PoD Bane vs the rest.
This seems like the most sensible match ups to me.
Now this isn't even an era thing, it's a 'how multi-on-one fights work in SW' thing!
I thought he was focusing on Stryfe? If he's focusing on Stryfe, then he's not focusing as fully on Nihl.
Or is he focusing on defending against Nihl? Then he's not fully focusing on Stryfe.
Yea, if only Nihl had, say, allies so that Bane has to deal with pre-coging about 3 times as much stuff as Nihl does just to survive.
And if only they had precognition or extra-sensory perception too...
Let's remember, the Jedi who were pushing Bane *hard* in RoT lost when one of their number unexpectedly was attacked, which allowed Zannah to unexpectedly kill Lsu. Bane also got hit strongly by Johun because he had too many things to deal with from his foes, even when Johun was an incompetent not fit to shine Stryfe's shoes and who was a hinderance to every ally who wasn't Raskta Lsu.
And that's not just some random examples- that's RoT Bane, who managed to get hit by Johun Othone who was so lousy he was consider a minus in a lightsaber duel vs Zannah. That's the power numbers gave.
Multi-way battles get busy and require more focus than even a Jedi and Sith has at times, as shown by the troubles all sides had in Bane's biggest fight.
Lemme count it out. One, Talon TK, two, Nihl lightning.
Seems like plenty of time. They have precognition, after all, they can sense openings.
Why would two masters stand there for multiple seconds? You're underestimating the impact of number and how much standing around is done.
There are no mooks in this thread.
Every last sith here is above Sirak.
See, Stryfe actually blocked Cade's TK for a bit, and he did his heart-grab thing *after* his heart had already been TK grabbed. He's not that easy to take out when he's healthy, and not even a force pushover when he's getting out of medical.
There's a fallacious assumption being made here, that 'weakest of the Hands' is synonymous with 'weak.' Maul's weakest of Sidious's apprentices. Savage Opress is weaker still. And Savage was quite useful against Palpatine who's >> PoD Bane.
Savage, one-on-one, lasted over 15 seconds against Darth Sidious, and when it was two on one, the pair weren't even at a disadvantage. And that's just a pair. Here we've got three on one.
You are seriously overestimating how quickly a moderately-stronger person can take out a weaker one... and PoD Bane is no Darth Sidious.
Agreed.
Which is why all of this talk of Bane getting multiple seconds to focus on individuals covered in 'the rest' doesn't fit.
3 on 1 and he just-happens to have all that time? Once you're in a two-on-one, the only way you get multiple seconds to deal with someone is if one of the fighters is wounded and needs recover, or if you really split them up in the force.
That's how it works with two-on-ones in the movies and in TCW, and 3 on 1 is like that but more. It means Bane can push or throw someone and he still has two to deal with, still not giving a one-on-one situation.
And there's still the possibility of someone from another fight changing focus when they spot an advantage. Wyyrlok is temporarily locked with DoE and PoD's back is facing Maladi while PoD is fencing with Talon and Nihl? Maladi will give a blast of her lightning into that fight.
Oh, hey, let's talk about using the force to separate people, like Sidious did vs Opress and Maul. PoD Bane force-throws Stryfe and knocks him away from the others! He leaps after Stryfe to finish the job before he can recover any other OS can help! Nihl and Talon immediately turn and add their power to Wyyrlok and Maladi vs DoE. Temporarily a 4-on-1, DoE Bane's force power is utterly overwhelmed.
Five seconds later Stryfe is maybe finished, DoE definitely is, and now PoD Bane has to deal with Wyyrlok, Nihl, Talon, and Maladi. Good trade?
I clarified later in my post that I'm talking about Bane taking on multiple opponents. What I mean is that he would be focusing on Nihl, while focusing on his other foes too. It is possible to engage 3 opponents at once. As you pointed out he's down it before.
He can focus on both, bro. Just like Dooku can focus on Anakin and Obi-Wan and Revan and Malgus can focus on 4 opponents at once.
Just to survive? If anything they'd be hard pressed to hold him off together.
Nothing I said implied otherwise.
With Battle Meditation strengthening them and weakening Bane. With Battle Meditation even Johun is equal to a turd like Stryfe.
And it was a testament to Lsu's skill that she turned him into a positive.
One, Bane raises his hand and fries Stryfe with lightning. Two, he defends against Talon and Nihl's attacks.
I didn't suggest they would just stand there. I suggested that the fight would be over by the time they tried to help.
Sirak is a mook to Bane.
If Wyyrlok's daughter can Force pwn him, Bane can.
I'm not suggesting they're weak. I'm suggesting Bane is strong. Theres a difference.
Savage didn't last 1 second against a serious Sidious. Palpatine plastered him to a window along with his brother whilst giggling like the loon he is. Its only because Sidious allowed him to that Savage stood longer than that.
I've never suggested he does. You're the one who suggested a Bane vs Stryfe one on one. You're the only one talking about Bane vs individuals here.
To be honest I would be surprised if Maladi wasn't blitzed by DoE Bane. Or whomever else he was fighting alongside Wyyrlok.
You're mixing this up. People throw others away so that they can focus on the opponents still standing. Sidious smacked Maul away and killed Savage while he was out of the fight. If Bane used the Force to toss Stryfe from the fight, he would turn and engage Nihl and Talon, using the improved numbers to his advantage and potentially overwhelming one or both of them before Stryfe rejoins the fight.
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Last edited by Nephthys on May 16th, 2014 at 10:48 AM
No, there was only one other shown hitting, and joining in after Nihl had already hit him enough to make him let go of his saber.
Battle Meditation isn't that strong, and Stryfe is actually a powerful and skilled duelist. He's never been a liability.
That was against two duelists, though.
This is three. Nihl's his highest priority. Talon is skilled and deadly herself and another serious threat. And Darth Stryfe is still a skilled master level duelist who's no chump like Johun who managed to not get brushed aside anyway.
And RoT Bane got a wrist-hit from Johun. Were it not for Orbalisk armor, he'd be down a hand.
One, Bane raises his hand and fires lightning and Talon and Stryfe *also* fire lightning. Two, Nihl attacks with his saber. Three, Talon and Stryfe continue firing lightning, making Bane have to heavily split his focus.
You're still having fast characters wait around for no reason.
Or one, Bane fires lightning at Stryfe and Nihl fires lightning at Bane. Two, Bane, out of hands because he's both actively lightning-ing and blocking lightning, gets stabbed by Talon.
This is three-on-one. They have more actions than Bane does.
Not in sabers, and Sidious caught them off guard with the initial push.
And this is three on one.
If Bane did that here, then the third one would stab him in the face.
Sidious couldn't have done that if he was fighting three Savages. It'd leave him open.
Enough with the arguments that rely on it being no more than two-on-one.
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Lightning powerful enough to make someone drop their saber when they're hit is not overly impressive
Battle Meditation has the potential to change the course of large scale battles by a considerable amount, and this is Battle Meditation being concentrated into a handful of people.
Lsu, Farfalla, and Othone make three. And they were all severely amped by BM.
Again he and his team were all amped by BM.
Were it not for Battle Meditation, he wouldn't have been able to score that hit in the first place. Bane also wasn't making an effort to defend anything but his face.
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Shadilay my brothers and sisters. With any luck we will throw off the shackles of normie oppression. We have nothing to lose but our chains! Praise Kek!
THE MOTTO IS "IN KEK WE TRUST"
Interesting you didn't have this stance in the 30 Sith Warriors vs Jedi Council thread regarding the advantage of sheer numbers, Q.
The novel makes it clear that he formed a high offence, minimal defence style due to the benefits that the orbalisks provided. That Johun landed a hit is far more of a reflection on the fact that Bane doesn't really need to defend himself as much as regular combatants do.
And this wasn't regular Johun, this was:
a) BM enhanced Johun
b) a Johun who was more an extension of Raskta Lsu's assualt than an individual combatant. The novel states that Raskta was so skilled that she was able to seamlessly enhance and complement Farfalla and Johun's attacks with her own to create a sort of miltifaceted meta attack on the Sith Lord. Just think of it like this, if you were to look at someone using Jar'Kai, but focused specifically on one of the lightsabers, its attacks would seem random and poorly thoguht out, but its in the manner in which both lightsabers interact into one style that it becomes effective. This is basically what raskta was doing by coordinating her attacks with Farfalla's and Johun's.
It was described as being a pretty extraordinary boost, was directly stated to have saved the Jedi's lives at multiple points in the duel, and was presumably the source of their incredible display of teamwork and high levels of skill and power (Raskta's blinding speed for instance).
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Something else to consider is that the Jedi team against Bane also legitimately cared for eachother while Krayt's hands are bitter rivals. I imagine this would effect team work and coordination, especially in the absence of BM
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Shadilay my brothers and sisters. With any luck we will throw off the shackles of normie oppression. We have nothing to lose but our chains! Praise Kek!
THE MOTTO IS "IN KEK WE TRUST"
May 15th, 2014 06:07 AM
Savage didn't last 1 second against a serious Sidious. Palpatine plastered him to a window along with his brother whilst giggling like the loon he is. Its only because Sidious allowed him to that Savage stood longer than that.
