What contributions? Plagueis, like Dooku and Vader, certainly deserves credit for directly committing finances and/or legwork to Darth Sidious's grand scheme. But beyond that? What evidence is there that any of the Sith between Bane and Plagueis contributed in any notable way to the collapse of the Republic and the rise of the Empire? You are merely assuming facts not in evidence when the overwhelming conclusion based on all available facts is that Sidious personally orchestrated and directed the whole thing to the extent of absurd micromanagement.
Setting aside the likes of Tenebrous, Gravid, et al., who are not known to have contributed anything at all beyond mere perpetuation of the Sith line, let's turn our attention to Bane. What does Bane deserve credit for? Bane deserves credit for implementing Revan's vision of the Rule of Two (though, let's be honest: Karpyshyn really undermined Bane there in order to wank Revan in petty fashion).
That's certainly important in that it probably saved the Sith from absolute extinction, but as far as Palpatine's broader victory over the Republic and Jedi is concerned? Bane really didn't do squat. Civil war, brainwashed clone armies, dark side shrouds, emergency powers, political manipulation, propaganda? All that is attributable to Sidious.
Credit goes something like this: Sidious >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dooku > Plagueis >> Vader >>>> Bane > Revan > everybody else.
Re: So is it true that only the movies and tv shows are Canon now?
Okay, clearly you are just trolling here (I think that's what the term is), but okay, I'll bite.
How the filloffal was it "a waste of time?" Did those years spent studying Star Wars bring you enjoyment? If so, then guess what "NOT A WASTE OF TIME!"
Second, who the heck is to say what's canon? Okay, "officially" it may only be movies & TV shows, but really canon is whatever you want it to be. I love the EU novels, I love LOTF, FOTJ and others. That makes them canon to me. I don't care what a bunch of greedy corporate executives claim.
It is only a "waste of time" if you decide it is. Think for yourself, not what the executives tell you to think.
Yeah I mean how many different continuities do Marvel and DC comic have.
And then the Movie Universes are seperate, and sometimes the TV Universe is again seperate.
Doesn't make enjoying any of them a waste of time.
Yeah damn right Dooku deserves credit.
Sidious could never have pulled it off without someone of Dooku's caliber in the looks, charm and suave department. Essential in playing the Jedi and the Galaxy for fools.
Last edited by Darth Thor on Sep 10th, 2014 at 07:01 PM
The way Maul was ruling the Mandalorians. He wasn't their ruler by face, but he was pulling the strings.
But clearly Dooku was the better choice for that job. So I have a feeling Sidious would have replaced Maul with Dooku anyway if Maul was victorious on Naboo.
That's stupid. Why the heck would you be "sad?" Why would these books mean anything less to you just because some twerps in business suits said some nonsense?
"Might as well be fan fiction." So what? Fan fiction is awesome. I've read fan fiction that was every bit as enjoyable as published books, or even better. I've written fan fictions that gave me far more joy than official works.
Gods, stuff like this makes me so angry I wonder if I should boycott the Sequel Trilogy altogether on principle.
Last edited by chilled monkey on Sep 13th, 2014 at 03:43 PM
Registered: Mar 2014
Location: The Proud Nation of Kekistan
Just think of it as two separate continuities.
__________________
Shadilay my brothers and sisters. With any luck we will throw off the shackles of normie oppression. We have nothing to lose but our chains! Praise Kek!
THE MOTTO IS "IN KEK WE TRUST"
The fact that the vast majority of the stories from the Legends canon presumably won't be continued? Or the fact that new material will be such a departure from the world he was already invested in? And say what you will about listening to twerps in business suits, but it's a natural psychological reaction to stop believing something's truly authentic when you are told in an official capacity that it isn't.
I don't know why people are comparing this to other reboots/alternate universes either. The vast majority of reboots that people have brought up usually haven't been for universes that told as much of a continuing storyline with a sense of progression as this one, and most alternate universe aren't completely abandoned as it seems this one will mostly be.
Except Lucas himself has been saying just about that for years. And honestly, if you liked it before, who cares if it's fanfiction? No one's going to fire-bomb your house and tell you to take the Star Wars name off of it.
Meant to post this before, somehow forgot to submit it...
That may be true but those are the exceptions rather than the rule. For the most part, there are higher standards and expectations for the writers of officially licenced works, and the writers are usually far more skilled, accomplished and experienced.
Fan fiction also lacks the quality of being part of a huge, shared universe that sees active collabarotion, and doesn't have the same effect of bringing large amounts of people together in fandom as official works do.
Which is one of the reasons why I've actually claimed in the past that the EU, particularly the post ROTJ stuff, never felt truly authentic to me, but it at the very least felt like a truly alive alternate universe and the closest thing we'd get to an authentic exploration of the universe outside of the movies. Now however it's secondary not just to the movies but all new content, is going to be directly contradicted by the new movies, and is presumably not going to get much more new content at all.
I think it's a little naive of a lot of you that you don't understand how somebody could be justifiably upset by this.
I think it's a little pointless to care. It's a story, and if you liked it, mission accomplished. The lack of a Disney label hardly upset me because it's always a story first, and Star Wars second. Otherwise I'd read Revan every day and watch the Phantom Menace every night.
Last edited by FreshestSlice on Sep 14th, 2014 at 01:56 AM
But that's not what he stated. He stated that he considered the (Legends) EU to be "a waste of time" and he was sad because he had a bookshelf full of "what might as well be fan fiction" (even though there is nothing wrong with fan fiction). He didn't say anything about being sad about stories not being continued.
I didn't.
I understand perfectly. Heck, I'm very angry and disappointed that we most likely won't get new stories in the Legends canon. But I certainly don't call the stories I have read a "waste of time" and I don't love those stories any less.
That's what makes me angry. He's basically saying that he doesn't value those stories anymore just because of something some executives said. Basically he's letting the executives dictate how he feels.
Last edited by chilled monkey on Sep 15th, 2014 at 03:05 AM
George Lucas has been saying the EU isn't part of his Official canon for decades now. So I'm still surprised to see how the news shocks people. Lucas never had heavy involvement in the EU, and almost always ignored it when making new canon material, so I don't for the life of me understand why anyone would expect differently from the leadership of the new Lucasfilm under Disney.
They want to make all new stories now and would simply be too restricted by taking the whole EU as Pure Canon. They have however said writers of the new canon are free to borrow stuff from the EU, which means we may see a Grand Admiral Thrawn or a Mara Jade.
So it's really just like the Marvel Comics Cinematic Universe. It's got its own Canon distinct from the comics, but will draw ideas and characters from Marvel Comics. Which is the right decision. They can't just follow comics (or novels) continuity, because the vast majority of your general audience would be lost, and the creative team would be too restricted.
On top of that the new Lucasfilm have been good enough to be more strict with their new canon and state anything new in the comic or novel world will be true canon. And that's the only way to make it without being full of contradictions and inconsistencies, is to have all the creative teams consulting with each other from Day 1. But the way it was being done previously it was just never going to mesh.
Just to clarify, I was simply saying that it's understandable that people would be sad that Legends canon has basically been overwritten and nothing more. I also agree that it's completely understandable that Disney don't want to be limited by the old continuity when making the sequels, and that this was all inevitable and the right thing to do.
I already commented on this Power. I never claimed that the EU ever felt completely authentic, but there are different levels of authenticity and this is simply many levels lower.
The difference is that the Marvel Comics Cinematic Universe hasn't completely overwritten the comics continuity, as is the case with the sequels and Legend Canon.
Sep 10th, 2014 01:43 PM
