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Originally posted by operator616
1) Monitor is a cosmic being, he created the netherverse and put 2 universes in there. Harbinger who is powered by him then added the three others. And this was while he was weakened.

2) You're comparing two different time eras. In Parallax's time changing the timeline wasn't such a big deal, in COIE it was explicitly stated that changing the past is impossible. And the pre-Crisis continuity had been actually strict about this (three examples from three different pre-Crisis runs: Superman #372, Superboy #164, Legion #259). Also the time travel issues where addressed in Cosmic Boy's mini and in the booster gold series right after COIE iirc. There are only a handful examples were that rule was broken. Unlike post-Crisis.

3) You have it wrong. Spectre went comatose because of his battle with AM not because he went against his boss. And his boss was the voice not the word.

I realize you don't want to debate this but I just thought I should counter your posts since I'm involved in this thread.

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Originally posted by darthgoober
I don't actually plan on debating this, I'm just throwing in my two cents and stepping away but...

I've always considered AM to be over hyped as Hell personally. Yes he was superior to the Monitor once the first universe was destroyed and the Monitor was powered by the multiverse but as AM demonstrated when he absorbed the anti-matter universe in the end, just being powered by a universe/multiverse doesn't mean you're actually as powerful as the universe itself(ergo, Monitor wasn't really multiversal in the conventional sense). By the same token, someone who's filling the role of the Juggenaut isn't necessarily the equal of Cyttorak and a wielder of the Power Gem can't really be considered INFINITELY powerful. If that were the case, it would mean Hulk's more powerful than Cyttorak since he's beaten Juggernaut and Thor during Blood and Thunder was +infinity during B&T since he beat Drax.

Before he absorbed the anti matter universe his Thunderors were giving him Hell and he was nearly killed by Supergirl. And while silver aged kryptonians DID have some ridiculous highs, they'd been toned down significantly even a couple of years before COIE(their big stuff comes from the early-mid silver age). So if the Monitor was less powerful than he, the Monitor wasn't a high end cosmic being at the time. DC may have rectonned that point since then(I know there's been some big stuff with the monitors since), but at the time he just wasn't all that. Now it' safe to assume that he WOULD have been if he'd absorbed the rest of the multiverse the way AM absorbed the anti matter universe, but he didn't so he never reached that level.

What's more, it's worth noting that by AM's own admission he actually burned through MOST of his power just reaching the dawn of creation(something characters like Parallax have done without problem) which is why he had to absorb the power of Earth's heros to complete the final step of his plan. While it's true that he did match power with Spectre amped by the mystics, Spectre's coma wasn't the direct result of the blast but because he was deliberately going against how his boss wanted the situation handled. And as we all know, Spectre's power is DIRECTLY affected by how much backing he has from his boss. Also I'm pretty sure that at the time his boss was the Word, not the Presence. Still an Uber cosmic being obviously, but not quite as impressive as the Presence itself.

As I said I'm not trying to get any debate on any of this(especially in regards to rectons and such since I haven't really followed them) so I'll leave it all at that, but people can feel free to PM me about it if they wish to discuss it more.

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Originally posted by darthgoober
Voice, Word... either way not the Presence lol. Though I'm almost positive it was revealed in a tie in that the Spectre's coma was a result of him going against his bosses wishes. I know it was brought up years ago and I believe it was confirmed by Galan so you might ask him what I'm referencing exactly cause I don't remember the details.