1. Is the Desolus duel even canon? Since it's not in the novel, not in the comic, and not even in the main game. It's a f-ucking DLC.
2. No matter how many times you reiterate this, Galen did not struggle against Maris. He just fought a damn Bull Rancor, he was conflicted with himself, yet the text still makes no note whatsoever that he was struggling. Nice fanfic of you.
And in the comic he flat out stomps her.
3. One of the Shadow Guards knocked him down when he was literally chatting with Juno. That Shadow Guard could tank his all out Force attack which is in the army buster++ range. The 2nd Guard was even better than that. So nice try
4. I can do my own lowballing game. Ventress was stalled by a fresh padawan, she was stalemated by a dying Kenobi, blitzed by Barriss. She's also said to be GI level by Filoni (I think?) who is below Old Master Maul, who is in stomp range for Ben Kenobi, who is roughly equal to ANH Vader, who is only moderatly above prime Galen.
Savage was stomped by Maul, who was beaten by a dog. He was also beaten by Kenobi when had Maul as backup.
Shaak oneshots Team 2
__________________
"You presume limits to our double standards. There are none." - Vitidiots
1. It's not a DLC, lmfao. It was part of the original versions of the game that were released (PS2, PSP, Wii), and he's featured in both the game's databank and TCSWE.
2. He staggered backwards from Maris' assault and was won through using a form that she didn't know. And I acknowledge the circumstances as I did in the other thread (he was weakened and it was on a nexus); still not impressive given that this is post-Felucia and Maris wasn't even fully trained. As for the comic version, I don't remember anything about that, so I'll take your word for it but it doesn't make much difference since almost everything is depicted differently there. IIRC, he beats Vader legit in the comic too. Not saying it's invalid, just using a consistent metric. And even if we skip Maris, his record's still about as inspiring as a frozen corpse at the base of Mt. Everest.
3. Yeah, the second Shadow Guard was literally going back and forth with him in saber combat. Also, this one wasn't capable of resisting his all-out Force attack at all - he got casually choked and then hurled into the lava (in fairness, I don't remember if this happens in the novel).
4. Too bad this isn't lowballing, this is Galen's consistent game. He doesn't even have one good skill feat under his belt. Let's review:
- He struggles with Kota (who later gets one-shotted by Boba Fett) and wins through tiring Kota out and Kota going doolally over a Force Vision.
- He has to use all of his skill to survive against a simulacrum of Darth Desolous that Jedi padawans face as part of their trials, and he's amped by the DS nexus in the Temple ruins to boot (whereas a simulacrum likely wouldn't be, but either way, shit-tier showing for him).
- He struggles with Paratus and wins through attacking Paratus with the Force when the latter breaks down crying because his mannequins got wrecked.
- He gets driven back by Shaak and wins because Shaak throws herself onto his blade.
- He's staggered by Maris' assault (factoring in the circumstances) and wins by switching to Juyo, which she doesn't know how to defend against.
- He has a back-and-forth with the Shadow Guard on Raxus Prime for some time.
- According to you, he's noticeably below ANH Vader, who's got shit-all for feats and is stated by sources to be the equivalent of a 2D-incarnation of his RotS self. And this is him by the end of the game, when he's supposed to have improved greatly.
Harsh assessment, yeah, but just show me where he's got anything that lets him beat Savage or Ventress at all, let alone easily. Especially noting that this is his Felucia incarnation. Half of these people he fights have nothing to their name and yet he struggles with them more consistently than TCW ****s Grievous up. Again, where are you getting that he beats Savage or Ventress easily? Unless you reckon that Shaak carries it in steamrolling fashion, which again, begs the question - how?
As I said, Galen could win through Force abuse, but the difference in sabers is probably too big.
Last edited by SunRazer on Apr 1st, 2017 at 08:52 AM
1. Lmao at this Boba lowballing again. Boba cheapshotted a blind Kota. F-ucking hilarious. He was still a Juyo master, and powerful enough to shrug off an army buster's Force Lightning, which is hard even for the most powerful of Masters.
2. Pretty much yeah. Everyone has shit tier showings tho. Unless you think a guy who has Sidious+ potential and was trained by Vader mercilessly for over a decade is a sub padawan phag
3. He didn't struggle for shit, Paratus outpaced him because of his mechanical legs so he opted out. At no point is Paratus painted as a rival in sabers.
4. Yeah he did. By a Master who was 16 years ago: One of the most powerful Jedi, had Legendary strenght in the Force (at a time when the Chosen One, Yoda, and Mace were running around), was revered as one of the highest in the Order and most accomplished duelist, she was one of the greatest swordbeing in the Order and only the most skilled could even stand against her. Frankly her RotS accolades shit all over Plo's, someone who pretty much stalemated Ventress when injured and also Savage.
5. Why the f-uck it matters that he was staggered by her inital attack? Like that means anything...Galen was exhausted and conflicted, and he still mopped the floor with Maris.
6. He did. What of it? Like I said, and inferior Shadow Guard tanked a Force attack that would pulverize Ventress
7. TFU Vader > Sidious in sabers. Get rekt fagit
__________________
"You presume limits to our double standards. There are none." - Vitidiots
1. lol Kota has Force Sight and precognitive abilities (kind of how he can deflect blaster fire while blind, you know?), so the blind excuse is so shit that I'd throw it in my red bin for pickup on Monday mornings. Juyo master? ****ing Kavar has that accolade, not that I managed to find it on the Kota RT with Ctrl+F anyway.
2. Vader seems to have deliberately held back his training. I agree that this is a standard below what I would expect of him, but even so, as I said before, the actual standard of his performance isn't exactly much better.
3. Or rather, at no point is Galen presented as more skilled. Kazdan's mobility was giving him the edge in sabers, and that was it. Hence, Galen struggled - I'm referring to duelling as a whole here. Although the entire fight was just shit anyway since Kazdan gave up his attack and decided to send in the mannequins for whatever reason.
4. Firstly, being legendary in strength in no way means that you have to draw up names like Mace, Yoda or Anakin - all of whom would bend Shaak over with their pinky. The rest of that is ****ing Secura-tier and Plo has those accolades as well. Not that generic accolades like that prove anything - Plo's feats are still better. And no, Plo was losing to Ventress. He was the one hit by the kick, which he countered only with TK as opposed to martial skill. To his credit, he did manage to deprive Ventress of one of his blades, but he was losing after that.
5. Because it does matter, lol. Galen couldn't even win without resorting to Juyo. But as I said, the circumstances are there. It's not a particularly good example, just one example of many.
6. Yeah, and this one didn't tank shit since he got ragdolled, lmfao.
7. Then Sidious belongs in the beyond-shit tier. In all seriousness, the Emperor isn't even a duelist at this point.
I still haven't seen anything to suggest that he can beat them easily. Like literally, up to Felucia, he has no positive feats. Afterwards, he has, what, beating Maris. Oh my. Like, he wins all of his duels through Force power, circumstances, or his opponents just ****ing up.
EDIT: Oh, I forgot. He's beaten PROXY.
Last edited by SunRazer on Apr 1st, 2017 at 09:40 AM
1. Yeah but Kavar can't tank shit, let alone the lightning of a guy who TKs thousands of droids
2. It's never stated Vader held back his training, right the contrary actually.
3. Translation: A pathetic lowball attempt at your end. Gotcha.
4. Lmao at those being Aayla tier, and no Plo doesn't have those accolades. Neither are his feats better. Holding of a dozen Magnaguard > Stalemating Ventress.
5. Holy shit, where the f-uck you get all this retarded assumptions? Galen uses 3 lightsaber forms. Soresu, which he used at first because he was conflicted, not because he was outmatched. Shien, which he uses for blaster wielding foes, does Maris use blasters? No. And lastly Juyo, so when he decided to end the fight he switched to Juyo, because that's an offensive style. Do you expect him to beat Maris with Soresu? F-ucking hilarious, your retirement can't come soon enough
6. At least you could read the fight if you really want to lowball Galen smh. Galen beat that guy by throwing a spinning fan at him, cutting off his leg.
7. Shit retort.
8. That's because so far we only debated dueling. In which case I wouldn't say he beats them easily, or at all, only that he's close. But it's not sabers only, it's all out. And Galen is hilariously more powerful than either Ventress or Savage, and so is Shaak.
__________________
"You presume limits to our double standards. There are none." - Vitidiots
1. Kota can't tank it either, he just partly repelled it. Galen's casual Lightning bursts (which are what he used on Kota) aren't especially overwhelming either. Trying to draw a parallel between that and army-busting TK is just laughable. Especially when said TK was the product of maximum effort, gathered power, and more than one TK attack. So what if he can TK thousands of droids? That requires a level of effort and focus that he wasn't remotely approaching when he zapped Kota with Lightning. The notion of there being "thousands" of them is a rough estimate on his part and not necessarily accurate to begin with. Anyway he has a better TK feat - musing that he could knock down Kazdan's junk castle with a single Push.
We're discussing skill here, at any rate. Trying to bring Kota's power into it is a deflection of the point. Bottom line is that Kota isn't even on par with Kavar in skill, and yet Galen was only even with him. After that, he needs all of his skill to survive against Desolous whilst amped. So where is the impressive part?
2. I'm presuming that based on the fact that Vader never intended him to reach his full potential. But if you have evidence of otherwise, I'd like to see it.
3. Again, there's no lowballing. That's just part of his catalogue of having no skill feats worth writing home about.
4. Plo does have those accolades - one of the most skilled, one of the most powerful etc. Aayla also has one of the most skilled; she just doesn't have the power accolades and we're discussing skill here. Holding off a dozen Magnaguards? You pulled that one out of your fat crack, unless you're talking about her after getting the staff, in which case that feat can't be used here. Prior to that she was running away whilst clashing with one or two Guards at a time and was still disarmed. Earlier on she struggled with a lone Magnaguard.
5. Funny that you're the resident Obi-Wan fanboy but don't think that beating someone with Soresu is plausible. Kenobi vs Grievous? Anyway, saying that he couldn't win without Juyo is a stretch on my part but even then he won on the account of Maris' unfamiliarity as opposed to anything else. If he was really as hilariously more skilled as you've suggested here and elsewhere, he could easily win in the Soresu form indeed; just because it's defensive doesn't mean you can't win with it. Maris wasn't even fully trained, for god's sake. It's literally a matter of exploiting a mistake on her part and then ending her. That Galen didn't do so is yet another mark against him; he's spared this one solely because of the circumstances in the fight which were arrayed against him.
6. Ah, the ragdolling is just in the PS2 version, then. Fair enough.
Also, checked the first Shadow Guard's apparent resistance of Galen's TK, which happens nowhere. He gets sent flying a considerable distance and simply rolls with the impact. That's not him blocking the TK or anything indicating comparable power. Otherwise, Revan can resist Vitiate's charged-up Force Wave on a DS nexus.
7. Shit claim deserves no better.
8. Not really. Ventress TK'ing both Obi-Wan and Anakin together (not the one in S3), casually uprooting trees, hurling Obi-Wan with immense potency, etc. is pretty impressive on her part; enough so to keep her from being dominated. Savage shattering a prison cell frame of Mandalorian iron is pretty good also, to say nothing of his feats whilst enraged.
Felucia Galen is close to them in sabers? Again, based on what? Not him being even with Kota or struggling with Desolous whilst amped? Because apart from beating PROXY, that's all he has up till Felucia. That's someone that Ventress or Savage would beat pretty damn easily. So again, it's down to Force abuse, because team 1's losing a lightsaber fight.
Last edited by SunRazer on Apr 1st, 2017 at 10:51 AM
1. Laughable to you maybe, it represents how powerful Galen is, and Kota repelled his TK and lightning attacks.
Also skill on it's own doesn't matter for shit. Kota is so far above Kavar in power that it makes up for any skill gap you presume, for which there are no actual proof anyway. They are both Juyo masters, and that's all they have skill accolde wise.
2.
Under Vader's relentless tutelage, the Apprentice all but perfected the fine art of lightsaber combat and learned to wield many fearsome dark side powers.
-- The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia
3. Eh yeah it is. You bring up a comfrontation where they didn't actually dueled, to lowball his dueling capability.
4. Nope he still doesn't. And yeah that feat can be used here, she held them off, your pathetic lowballing again won't change that.
5. Shit example, Kenobi's Soresu was being overwhelmed so he switched to offense too. Anyhow all your argument here is shit tier, only because a SITH decided to use THE SITH FORM instead of the PASSIVE Soresu, to beat his opponent suddenly he's shit? You are literally saying that Galen's preference makes him bad
6. The point is that he wasn't even hurt by an all out Force attack from Galen. And you want to lowball him with guys like that.
7. It's a canon statement, sorry if it rustles your jimmy.
8. Neither of those showings are close to Galen's, so yeah...
9. Based on contending with TFU Shaak, who is > RotS Shaak, who is > Plo, who is ~ Pre-prime Ventress and Savage.
__________________
"You presume limits to our double standards. There are none." - Vitidiots
One of the most militaristic and dangerous of the Jedi insurgents, Plo Koon served on the Jedi Council for more than 10 years.
--Star Wars Insider 87
Three members of the council-Plo Koon, Saesee Tiin, and Depa Bil-laba, excellent fighters all-had come forward and attacked him.
--Star Wars: Darth Maul: Shadow Hunter
Plo's ability to act quickly makes him both a fierce warrior and a fearsome starship pilot.
--Star Wars: Mysteries of the Jedi
Calm and confident, Plo Koon is a gifted warrior, while at the same time, a paternal figure to many.
--The StarWars.com 10: Best Jedi
Shaak's generic accolades:
Ti is a highly skilled lightsaber duelist backed by a group of Force-using natives of the planet, as well as a sarlacc.
--Star Wars Insider #140
As a member of the High Council, a fierce combatant, and master tactician, Shaak Ti has been involved in many of the most deadly conflicts in the Clone Wars.
--Star Wars UK Magazine 6.17
The Togruta Jedi Shaak Ti was noted for her compassion, but was also known as a cunning and dangerous fighter.
--The Star Wars Vehicle Collection #51
Shaak Ti's lightsabre movements were fluid and graceful, making the most of her enhanced spatial awareness. Few escaped her deadly, swirling blade.
--The Official Star Wars Fact File #74
Shaak Ti was a formidable combat specialist, expert in melee fighting in chaotic and densely packed conditions.
(source Myth?)
Their Clone Wars Advantures accolde:
With advanced telekinesis abilities and a mastery of the powerful Djem So Lightsaber form, Jedi Master Plo Koon would prove a challenge for any Jedi.
--Star Wars: The Clone Wars: Adventures
Shaak Ti is a Master of Makashi and Ataru forms in addition to her legendary strength in the Force. Known far and wide as a cunning and serene Jedi, only the most skilled of the Order could stand against her!
--The Clone Wars Adventures
I find Shaak's here better, but one could argue they are equal.
Then Plo has a character opinion of someone who never met him, and when Shaak wasn't even a master yet:
He longed to battle one of the truly great Jedi warriors: Plo Koon, perhaps, or Mace Windu. That would be a true test of his skill.
--Star Wars: Darth Maul: Shadow Hunter
And then Shaak has these:
There is an understated elegance in Obi-Wan Kenobi's lightsaber technique, one that is quite unlike the feel one might get from great swordbeings of the Jedi Order. He lack entirely the flash, the pure bold elan of an Anakin Skywalker; there is no where in him the penumbral ferocity of a Mace Windu or a Depa Billaba nor the stylish grace of a Shaak Ti or a Dooku and he is nothing resembling the whirlwind of destruction that Yoda could become.
--Revenge of the Sith novelisation
The Jedi revere Shaak Ti as one of the highest of their Order and among the most accomplished in lightsaber combat.
--The Force Unleashed Campaign Guide
__________________
"You presume limits to our double standards. There are none." - Vitidiots
Koon is one of the most powerful Jedi ever, with awesome fighting ability, strong telekinetic powers and superb piloting skills.
--Star Wars: Character Encyclopedia
1. I didn't mention that because that's about power not so much about dueling.
2. Shaak being Legendarily powerful as of TCW is the same shit.
3. Shaak still has the same accolade:
After an inconclusive victory against Rahm Kota, and a more final one against the mad Paratus, Starkiller takes on a far more formidable foe in this classic scene: Shaak Ti, one of the most powerful Jedi.
--Star Wars Insider #140
__________________
"You presume limits to our double standards. There are none." - Vitidiots
Registered: Jul 2014
Location: Off learning Ground Realities
Being one of the most powerful Jedi is statistically a pretty shit accolade. When accounting for the top tiers of the Jedi order it is an accolade that would apply to every single one of them.
"Legendary strength in the force" is not, to the same extent. Even if it is, they both speak to the exact same thing, so how you think a singular quote like that places Koon above Ti is beyond me.
__________________ "i admire u choose cersei as ur avi sel. at least u know that ur one sick *****, i can respect that" - Inturpid.
Apr 1st, 2017 08:10 AM
