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Home » Star Wars » Star Wars: Literature & Expanded Universe » Star Wars Versus Forum » Ulic vs. Arcann


Ulic vs. Arcann
Started by: Stigma

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JMANGO
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by DarthSkywalker0
reviewed by Chee.


As if this were some smoking gun of sorts?

Old Post Mar 17th, 2018 09:32 PM
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Jmanghan
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Registered: Oct 2013
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by DarthSkywalker0
Quote in a Wizards Of The Coast article reviewed by Chee.
Okay, well then yeah, I guess he's above him.

Weird that he is though.

SF Malak > Kun > Nadd.

:/


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Old Post Mar 17th, 2018 09:41 PM
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FreshestSlice
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Jmanghan
Because The Outlander isn't hopelessly above those same protagonists that Revan was ragdolling.

I know he's grown in power, but I don't see the jump from HoT to The Outlander being extremely high.

The Outlander is so far about the protags that it's ridiculous to even pretend they're remotely the same level they were before, lel.

Going from being ragdolled by Arcann to resisting the same attack that ragdolls a more powerful Arcann indeed is quite the jump. But of course, it's best to know what you're talking about before talking.

Old Post Mar 18th, 2018 01:41 AM
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AncientPower
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by DarthSkywalker0
Quote in a Wizards Of The Coast article reviewed by Chee.


Which can be interpreted in numerous ways, sure.


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Old Post Mar 18th, 2018 01:45 AM
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DarthSkywalker0
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by AncientPower
Which can be interpreted in numerous ways, sure.


The author has clarified the correct interpretation on Twitter. Hint: It is not yours.


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Old Post Mar 18th, 2018 02:39 AM
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AncientPower
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If we're using authorial intent then we have two lines of logic from writers that actually have authority over the characters in reference, that conflict with Cory's.


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Old Post Mar 18th, 2018 03:39 AM
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Deronn Solo
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It's not simple authorial intent when the statement itself is in actual canon, lmao.


A clarification of a canonical statement isn't equal to off-the-record comments made years after the fact by a writer in email or some shit.


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Old Post Mar 18th, 2018 03:50 AM
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AncientPower
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What the hell are you talking about? Both Veitch and Avellone were merely clarifying statements in their respective source material too. erm


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Old Post Mar 18th, 2018 04:19 AM
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Deronn Solo
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Before I bother engage any further - what canonical statement is Tom clarifying again?

Because answering who would win between Palpatine and Exar doesn't count.


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Old Post Mar 18th, 2018 04:32 AM
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AncientPower
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quote:
After his epiphany inside the temple of Exar Kun, Kyp had emerged stronger, able to accept the challenge. If he could face this final test, Luke would know that Kyp had passed through the fire of his testing-tempered by forces as dire and powerful as those Luke himself had endured....
- Jedi Academy Volume 3: Champions of the Force


All of which is further enforced by I, Jedi.


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Old Post Mar 18th, 2018 04:39 AM
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SunRazer
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Let's not forget that the relevance of authorial intent is subject to the times and the way other authors' intents (some of which will actually be put into canonical works) shapes the SW universe. The 90's sentiment about Kun being comparably powerful to Palpatine is as bygone as Avellone's short-lived efforts at hyping up the Ancient Sith. It's just not how the rest of the continuity wants it.

Old Post Mar 18th, 2018 05:16 AM
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AncientPower
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Exar Kun got the only other major Sith accolade besides Sheev in TCSWE. Not to mention that characters still sense his weakened spirit's power to a degree that they mention him in the same list as Vitiate's spirit and Revan's presence during SOR.

Nothing contradicts Kun being a top tier Sith, if that was such a glaring continuity issue then we would've seen such a problem arise upon the republishing of the material depicting him as such. Let alone newer sources, such as the Darth Plagueis novel, still holding up Kun as very much a benchmark of Sith power.

There's nothing bygone about it, as if canon worked that way in the first place.


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Old Post Mar 18th, 2018 05:32 AM
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SunRazer
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That doesn't mean anything; TCSWE is hardly a go-to source for accolades anyway. It's more telling that TCSWE shoved Kun aside and made it open season for any Sith that chronologically succeeded him to surpass him in power, which is exactly what's happened since the 90's.

Old Post Mar 18th, 2018 05:35 AM
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AncientPower
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It pushed him aside for Sheev. erm

Kun's still very much a top dog amongst the Sith and there's been nothing contradictory to that. He's still, canonically, very much above the likes of Darth Nihilus, which doesn't do much for the argument that he's somehow irrelevant now.


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Old Post Mar 18th, 2018 05:42 AM
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SunRazer
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Most of us don't seem to hold Nihilus in such high regard anymore. So that doesn't do much for Kun, and that scaling is still erroneous because it's incompatible with continuity outside of Avellone's dreamworld.

Old Post Mar 18th, 2018 05:44 AM
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AncientPower
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I don't really care, his abilities to destroy citadel station and rip fleets out of gravity wells is massively impressive.

It's not incompatible when he's still considered incredibly dangerous by SWTOR. Besides the fact we have Kreia literally saying it herself in the game, all we need Avellone to do from there is assert the accuracy of her claims beyond that point.


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Old Post Mar 18th, 2018 05:52 AM
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Jmanghan
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Registered: Oct 2013
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by AncientPower
I don't really care, his abilities to destroy citadel station and rip fleets out of gravity wells is massively impressive.

It's not incompatible when he's still considered incredibly dangerous by SWTOR. Besides the fact we have Kreia literally saying it herself in the game, all we need Avellone to do from there is assert the accuracy of her claims beyond that point.
He said her claims were accurate before, but thats done nothing for other Ancients such as Hord, Sadow, and Ragnos.


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Old Post Mar 18th, 2018 06:39 AM
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S_W_LeGenD
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by ILS
The same Jman who says things only he believes?

The very same.

laughing out loud

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Jmanghan
Are we serious?

The same Ulic that was on par with Exar Kun?

The same Exar Kun that can rival Revan to an extent?

The same Revan who would legit ragdoll Arcann and could take both him and The Outlander at once?

LEL

Knights of Zakuul are more competent than Jedi (and Sith) on average because they do not restrict themselves to any dogma when it comes to understanding of the ways of the Force.

Now; Force-users significantly vary in capabilities at personal capacity so the best of Jedi (and Sith) are/were better than scores of Knights of Zakuul. However, general impression is that even the strongest Jedi (and Sith) stood no chance against the top-guns of Zakuul in an encounter and had to flee or risk persecution when their paths crossed.

Top-guns of Zakuul include Heskal, Senya, Thexan, Arcann, Vaylin and Valkorion. There are others but not important story-wise. However, Valkorion pinned them against each other through his machinations.

Knights of Zakuul brought both the Republic and Sith Empire to their knees in a major war, with Thexan and Arcann at the forefront of the effort. However, Arcann murdered Thexan in a fit of rage and set his sights on the throne.

---

As for your outlandish claim in regards to Revan:-

But the immortal Emperor could not be vanquished so easily. He evaded death by infiltrating the mind of the Outlander, his most powerful opponent. (KoTET)

That is substantial hype, and not era-restricted. Even if you argue that Revan was relatively superior, so was Arcann.

Valkorion subjected both Revan (Reborn) and Arcann to his Force Lightning Storm on two separate occasions; difference is that Arcann did a better job at resisting such power than Revan (Reborn) - direct comparison.

But;

"You were an exemplary pawn, one I forged into a vessel of supreme power--worthy of preserving my spirit." (Valkorion - endgame)

Valkorion enhanced the powers of the Outlander to a significant degree during the course of KoTFE and KoTET. The Outlander stood no chance against Arcann (and Vaylin) in a fight originally but was able to defeat them later on [1 on 1].

My assessment:

Valkorion > Vaylin = The Outlander > Arcann = Revan

Last edited by S_W_LeGenD on Mar 18th, 2018 at 09:31 AM

Old Post Mar 18th, 2018 09:22 AM
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